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Post by Kenny on Nov 5, 2005 11:42:05 GMT 10
We the musicians are the centre of this universe that you speak of. Without us there is no audience, radio station, nothing to review in fact thier is no role for you. After further consideration ... Actually, I don't think this is debatable at all. Actually, I think it's 100% dead wrong. An awful lot of musicians I know - or know of - and respect are quite open about seeing their varied audiences as playing a vital role in their music-making. Obviously, I have no idea of your identity, but I hope you're not one of this forum's perennial whiners, playing away in your lonely ivory tower. Regarding the metaphysics: You fall for a familiar trap of arrogance into which many atheists fall. Simply believing God doesn't exist doesn't necessarily make it so. No matter how hard you try. And in my experience, so-called atheists really do try hard to maintain that what is inherently unprovable is indeed provable! Besides ... doesn't listening to Trane, Tyner, Jimmy, Elvin fuck with your atheism? Even a teensy, weensy bit? |
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Post by duh on Nov 5, 2005 12:00:16 GMT 10
no
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Post by musician athiest on Nov 5, 2005 14:05:43 GMT 10
double no!
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Post by agnostic on Nov 5, 2005 14:12:37 GMT 10
"You fall for a familiar trap of arrogance into which many atheists fall. Simply believing God doesn't exist doesn't necessarily make it so."
You fall for a familiar trap of arrogance into which many believers fall. Simply believing God exists doesn't necessarily make it so.
"No matter how hard you try. And in my experience, so-called atheists really do try hard to maintain that what is inherently unprovable is indeed provable!"
No matter how hard you try. And in my experience, so-called believers really do try hard to maintain that what is inherently unprovable is indeed provable!
Besides ... doesn't listening to Trane, Tyner, Jimmy, Elvin fuck with your belief? Even a teensy, weensy bit.
gotta do better than that Kenny.
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Post by Kenny on Nov 5, 2005 14:22:49 GMT 10
"You fall for a familiar trap of arrogance into which many atheists fall. Simply believing God doesn't exist doesn't necessarily make it so." You fall for a familiar trap of arrogance into which many believers fall. Simply believing God exists doesn't necessarily make it so. gotta do better than that Kenny. Agnostic, you twerp. Read it again. I am not a believer. I never claimed God exists. Of course your retort is 100% correct. I just find the atheist point of view equally as absurd as that of the fervent believer. Which atheists hate, of course. To my mind, they're two sides of the same coin. But your apt comparison makes myn point for me anyway. Atheists ARE believers. They are believers that God doesn't exist. They claim they know. But they don't. They may have a supremely, fulsomely, ultra-firm hunch. But they don't actually know. Gotta do better than that? Yeah yeah yeah. Another anonymous schmuck! (It's kinda wishy washy but I guess strictly speaking I'm an agnostic myself just like you. A fence sitter, as I said earlier. But Trane and more do give me pause for thought.) |
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Post by tyranasourus on Nov 5, 2005 15:29:49 GMT 10
Kenny, you said this;
"That would be God, of which the music is a manifestation"
you brought up the god shit up and the centre universe shit. Well I'd like a headjob and I can't get one from any of these poofter arse jazz cunts so go and get fucked. Any one who can blow me like Pamela is the best jazz musician in the world as far as I'm concerned so let me get some of that action or else I'lll kill you all with terrorist bombs and sperm all over your horrible pasty arses. Plus I can play much better than you anyway so I'm definately right so fuck off.
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Post by Kenny on Nov 5, 2005 15:34:01 GMT 10
Kenny, you said this; "That would be God, of which the music is a manifestation" you brought up the god shit up and the centre universe shit. Well I'd like a headjob and I can't get one from any of these poofter arse jazz cunts so go and get fucked. Any one who can blow me like Pamela is the best jazz musician in the world as far as I'm concerned so let me get some of that action or else I'lll kill you all with terrorist bombs and sperm all over your horrible pasty arses. Plus I can play much better than you anyway so I'm definately right so fuck off. Ahhh, that's the spirit. Yes, I did say that. But it was kinda tongue in cheek. You gotta have a jab at someone who considers themselves center of the universe, even if it is merely the jazz world and even if it is in jest. Sorry if I've been confusing ya. It would be more accurate to say that I frequently find music to be Godly. Send me Pamela's phone number pronto. |
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Post by Kenny on Nov 5, 2005 15:35:38 GMT 10
And it's pretty cool the banner ad has changed to one for a doco called "The God Who Wasn't There"!
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Post by Sunworshipper on Nov 5, 2005 16:27:37 GMT 10
Geez Kenny, Hope you got a laptop with airport or you're a bloody wanker sitting inside talking shit to dickheads like us on a day like this!!!! Get thee to the local pool or beer garden. I'll know its you if your wearing a laptop.
SlipSlopSloppySlap or should I say
LickKissSuckSloppySlit.
Don't get burn't now Kenny. No-one likes redskins anymore.
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Post by Reader on Nov 5, 2005 16:49:51 GMT 10
Yeah Kenny, you nailed it for me. I'm agnostic also, which literally means not knowing. And I'll go a step further than you and say that I think atheism is a bigger leap than believing.
Thing about great music is that it makes you realise you're not alone... and you can call that whatever you like.
HENDRIX, where are you you intellectual woose? Or are you the one posting all the other boring shit? Come on guys where's the fun gone?
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Post by Kenny on Nov 5, 2005 16:59:27 GMT 10
And I'll go a step further than you and say that I think atheism is a bigger leap than believing. Yes, that makes a certain kind of sense. I always find their utter certainty very funny. And when confronted with the sort of logic you and I fancy, I've heard 'em start shrieking: "But I do know. I know. I really, reallly do know ..." And in terms of great art, children, chocolate, gelati, VOO and other cool stuff, it could be argued there is more evidence of God's existence than to the contrary. |
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Post by not god on Nov 5, 2005 19:09:03 GMT 10
fuck the god evidence stuff. Great music comes from people who are great musicians, can't blame God for it.
I'm certainly not giving god cred for my kids either.
Lets grow up and be responsible for our own stuff even if God exists or not.
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Post by Kenny on Nov 5, 2005 19:12:51 GMT 10
Can't argue with that, I guess. But isn't there a spiritual element in the music we love? Those who think it's merely mechanics - and not a matter of magic and mechanics - I pity.
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Post by not god on Nov 5, 2005 19:52:19 GMT 10
absoluetly, but why should spirituality have anything to do with god? Can't the individual have that themselves?
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Post by mim on Nov 6, 2005 14:50:12 GMT 10
Too right.
I am an athiest, I'll post that under my own name. Kenny, I resent your implication that for an athiest to feel music as deeply as a believer (or agnostic) it must be coming from a "spiritual" place. I put that in adverted commas because I'm speaking a definition of the word spiritual not in my own terms, but in a religious sense.
I believe in life, and the universe, and human beings (I have nothing against ducklings or ants or trees or other living forms, it's just that I'm a human, and we are a self centred race). I see music as something that comes from people, and is inspired by what they see, hear, think, and feel. It doesn't matter that those thoughts or feelings are created by the mechanics of the human body, they are still a wonderful thing. Spirituality, magic, it's just semantics. Call it what you will. To me, someone spirit is just who they are. It comes through the music whether they believe in God or not. They can feel music just as deeply.
Life amazes me every day. Music amazes me every day (well, almost every day). People and personal relationships amaze me every day. I don't have to believe in Intelligent Design to appreciate how wonderful these things can be. I can call it spiritual, or if I want to be a little pretentious, I'll cal it "Je ne sais quoi". The result is still the same; a rose by any other name, etc. I hope that at some point these things will come through my music.
I haven't heard the Oehlers/Keevers album yet, but I daresay these things probably do come through their music, especially after hearing what they both have to say about their musical partnership. That is why I will buy the album.
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