This forum

[Kenny]

tinky said:

Kenny, I dont think Tim sounds like a whinger at all, he's simply stating what went down as I see it. People really got on the defensive and went at Tim harder than they claimed he went in his review. Gotta agree with Tim on this, alot of it was infantile and lacked anything but a poked out tongue.

God this beer taste nice!!!

I'm sure it does!!!

Hey, I'm just having my say, too!

You may be right, but in my view - given the erratic history/quality of posting here - there wasn't a single thing that was surprising about what happened.

[isaacs]

kennyweir said:

there wasn't a single thing that was surprising about what happened.

Maybe not surprising, but hurtful, small-minded and infantile definitely. And definitely more hurtful than the alleged hurt to Sam.

[Kenny]

admin said:

And definitely more hurtful than the alleged hurt to Sam.

But if that's the case, I think it's a matter of giving equal weight to an official, formal review and a bunch of mostly anonymous, rabid blatherings. And that don't seem right.

[isaacs]

kennyweir said:

But if that's the case, I think it's a matter of giving equal weight to an official, formal review and a bunch of mostly anonymous, rabid blatherings. And that don't seem right.

Fair enough Kenny, if there was an injustice a Music Forum review is a more weighty and permanent document, attributed etc as you say. But on the other hand, this is a close community here at ozjazzforum, something like family, particularly it seems for the Melbourne jazz community, which magnifies the hurt. And in that respect I thought some of it was uncalled for, Tim was at the very worst pedantic, but some responses were venomous and vile. Tim has my sympathy.

[Kenny]

admin said:

kennyweir said:

But if that's the case, I think it's a matter of giving equal weight to an official, formal review and a bunch of mostly anonymous, rabid blatherings. And that don't seem right.

Fair enough Kenny, if there was an injustice a Music Forum review is a more weighty and permanent document, attributed etc as you say. But on the other hand, this is a close community here at ozjazzforum, something like family, particularly it seems for the Melbourne jazz community, which magnifies the hurt. And in that respect I thought some of it was uncalled for, Tim was at the very worst pedantic, but some responses were venomous and vile. Tim has my sympathy.

Well, I wouldn't argue with any of that. I hope there are no scars - life's too short for that sort of BS. Also, as another member pointed out to me, it's quite possible that discussion/brouhaha has brought more people here. Look at the "view" figures.

[tinky]

Out of all the BS that did go on with that thread I thought that both Sam and Jamie handled things really well and both said their piece with intellegent response. With the other crap ingnored it was a very interesting thought provoking thread for sure.

[isaacs]

That's true Tinky. There were some great responses, and it's right to single out how dignified Sam and Jamie were who were after all the actual recipients of a not-so-favourable review. I'm sure their response was heartening to Tim by way of antidote. And there were other great posts from very distinguished visitors like Joe Chindamo and Paul Grabowsky as well as great stuff from the regulars. The objectionable posts were the exception not the rule.

[belindablahblah]

thank you Mark -
i dont know how much time you invest here to keep this forum running the way it does, but I'm grateful that you do. Already it lets me tap into the 'scene' when i feel far away from it and informs me of some of the going-ons i'd otherwise miss about gigs and so on. i'm often amused and often not, by the posts here; though ones that dont interest are easy to avoid. whatever you are censoring, i trust you.

apologies Tim. i dont wish hurt for anyone that reads or posts on this forum. I realize my views on criticing music are unpopular and probably flawed. we all go through such a struggle to get our music out there and any road blocks in it's path to the people just make it that much harder, that i'm prepared to cop the slack for my thinking about 'saying nice stuff on reviews or keeping quiet'. If my posts did offend, know that wasnt my intent and i am sorry. i admire your intellect, your deep understanding of music and eloquence in expressing it. thank you for posting and please keep letting us know here when you gig next, i'd love to hear you play again. x belinda

[timothystevens]

Thanks Belinda; all I want to do in reviewing records is to help foster intelligent, reasoned discussion of the music. When an album is released it is a contribution to our culture and the highest esteem that can be paid it is repeated, thoughtful and close listening. Musicians make music, and in so doing they invite listeners to engage with it. For me, the review is the representation of only one person's listening experience, and its importance should not be overstated. Reviews may have consequences of one kind or another, but in the end glib praise is scant reward. I hope at the very least that all this fuss encouraged a few more people to listen closely to 'Grace,' or to listen to it at all - not so as they could agree with me, but so as they could make up their own minds. Perhaps they heard things I didn't; almost certainly they listened in a different way, from a different perspective. A healthy exchange of views with the subject in mind is a good thing.

So, you know, your difference of opinion didn't hurt at all. Rather, it seems we might be united in a hope that more people will listen and share.

[Kenny]

admin said:

The objectionable posts were the exception not the rule.

Yep. Maybe coz I've been through the likes of that thread 100 times elsewhere I'm a bit more ho hum about it.