When is it music?

[tinky]

I did a duet recording on Friday with the fabulous Simon Barker, we had a fantastic time and made some great music. We did two pieces, one about 34 mins the other 39. The first blow was beautiful, not a suspect moment, the flow was excellent and the interaction/tension sounds very natural. After this we had a break and a bite to eat then went back to the studio for another hit. Listening back it is so obvious that its not happening as well. We both play strong ideas and play our instruments well but alas to no musical avail. This all changes at exactly 11mins.49secs. In that second the whole vibe changes and we are back on for the next 27 minutes. I can hear it so clearly, infact both Simon and I picked the exact edit spot after listening seperately at home. I guess sometimes we have to wade thorough some shit to find a spot that is inspirational, I know that even though that first 11 mins is not happening it led to somehwhere that was worth getting to. Funny old thing music, whatever it is.

[shaggaz]

blood sugar levels...

thats very interesting tinky i enjoyed reading that. did you dissect the previous improv during your lunch break? or not talk about it at all? if you did, do you think your subconscious was going 'right, so that worked, that didn't work etc...'?

[tinky]

We both agreed we liked what had happened but didn't do any disecting. Simon asked if I thought we should try to do anything different or specific but I said I'd rather go back and just play without worrying about that. In fact I think its ok for similar stuff to happen, most music you listen to has a continuity to it as far as content goes so I was very willing to continue along the same path.(con con con)
Maybe the sugar levels did need to settle, whatever, its a funny thing how the difference between inspirational stuff and blah can be so fine.
I think no matter how hard you study or how much you know, there is still the X-factor that is as simple as yes or no.

[jeremy]

It's interesting to see that muso's such as yourself actually notice this. After witnessing month long residencies, I've noticed that even with identical setlists, some nights just seem to be more energetic and crowd embracing than others. I wonder if the government would fund a study into this... Might be a nice way to steal our tax dollars back

[antboy]

yo,
really nice to read a discussion about MUSIC!
for me it is that X factor that is at the same time so incredibly incredibly rewarding, but at a moments notice so incredibly incredibly frustrating also!
The year before last I really got turned off improvised music in a way, being new in Europe I was yet to meet players that the music really clicked with, and also I was a bit at odds as to what I was doing myself...I traveled a lot doing "improv" gigs all over the place with different people all the time and got totally shit sick of it all.
The chances of that X factor being ON was much harder to get to when not knowing the people so well l was working with, and I got really tired of presenting my music LIVE in this way, ( relying nearly entirely on the X-factor ). For me this can happen in free-improv ( most of these situations were free improv gigs ) but also playing in a group with compositions or set ideas ).
So last year I decided to focus only on projects that would be 'solid' in terms of line-up and concept, and did very few gigs of purely improvised music ( meeting players for the first time etc), also l spent most of the year in the studio working on my next solo CD of electro-acoustic compositions, which was a good idea to get out different musical concepts and work on skills not at all associated with the 'performing' world.

Now I feel I'm up for a few X factor adventures again, it is my preferred way to make music, but for me that comes always with the double edged sword of it being ON or OFF, but I think that like many musicians I really respect, without the risk it aint as much fun...

[TIGER GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!]

I did a solo alto recording on my four track. I created piano bass and drums from manipulations on my horn. I called the tune solipsism.
and dedicated it to myself.
Noone likes it?

But noone like Ian Crowther when they first heard him did they

cue
:Cartman, Johnny,Iron Guts

[antboy]

tiger,
wow man, that sounds really cool,
my next CD will be playing standards with a dj,
you wana do a guest spot?

[shaggaz]

has anyone read Eugene's thesis (help me out tim I forget the title)? Some interesting discussion about what it is to become unconsciously competent... relates well to this discussion. Also Rob Vincs' PhD thesis in Philosophy about transcedental experiences in music (an exegesis style read)

I agree with antboy in that is can be very hit and miss trying to get the x factor, but I'd be interested to hear others opinions on what environment is usually required to achieve this.

[tinky]

A thread about music, who would have thought.

I do think it would be much harder to get that x going when playing with people that you don't have a relationship with. There are certain musos I know so well that the chances of it being on are pretty high. We have a language to draw from and a deep understanding and belief in each other which makes it easier.
Now this is not to say that when you play with someone for the first time its not going to work, its just a different thing.
There was that thread about the music/sex thing and for me this is where it gets interesting for the free blow stuff. When I get with people to have a play, I find we often talk for an hour before getting down to business, kind of like foreplay. With someone like Dalgliesh the discussion is quite intense and long, then when we get to playing it feels like a continuation of our chat. Its a very nice feeling actually, kind of comfortable as well as exciting.
I really like having dinner with a band before a gig, or at least hanging and getting in touch with each other to sort of connect. I think that's very important.
Thanks to aj, I've had the chance to play with some pretty heavy internationals at Wang, its interesting how the hang before the gig reflected in the music. Han B was a hoot out the back, loads of fun then the same when we went on stage. Betty Carter was gorgeous, no bullshit, totally accepting and totally incredible, it was great to play with her. Vincent Herring and Eric Reed were the total opposite, everything was a hassle, can you read, can you transpose, were so hip, your shit vibe. Playing with them was uninteresting and uncomfortable, they didn't want me there and it sounded like it. I still had fun though in a strange naughty boy way.
Music is a social thing, complex and perplexing, but so worth the risk of it not working, better to have loved and lost than not loved at all.

[Kenny]

Fascinating post, Tinky.

I confess to having walked out of your gig with Bennik. Musta been something else on that appealed at the time. Besides which, I'd be much more gleefully open to that sort of malarky these days.

I also saw yer one with Reed & Co. I remember the body language pretty much backing your recall of that show. LOL!

[jvmac]

Tinky, thanks for that insight into the mysterious and elusive x factor. As a listener I found your post on music, especially the stories of hanging with the band members very interesting. It seems quite natural that a good social connection can only help the creative process once on stage. I forget the year but it was probably the same one you played with Vincent Herring, every time I caught him it was almost the exact same set, always ending with Canteloupe Island (I never thought I would get sick of that song). With his vast experience you thought he could of varied the concerts, especially when the group played something like 5 performances. To be fair there may have been extenuating circumstances.

[Kenny]

tinky said:

When I get with people to have a play, I find we often talk for an hour before getting down to business, kind of like foreplay.

But then again ... this is something I think I'd rather not ponder too much!

[tinky]

Believe me Kenny, I dont.

jvmac, I found that it wasn't just the fact that the set was the same but the playing throughout was the same too.

When I spoke to Vincent about doing a rehearsal, I said I was busy because I was playing with Han B. He was quick to say "who's that". I filled him in and he asked who else was playing. When I said it was just duo he said "Oh, so it cre-a-tive music" in a very anoying and sarcastic voice. Obviously by his music he doesn't play creatively.
He was actually quite nice to me compared to the story Phil Slater told me of his experience the next night.

[captain]

Hey Tinky, I don't remember you sitting in with Herring... Was that in 99? I was 17, first time I went to wang. Even at 17 I thought that quartet was lame.

[johnnymastropaulos]

Personally I find the X-factor issue so frustrating that it has nearly made me give up playing free music completely. I've done two gigs with lawrence folvig over the last couple of months, the first was so good that we both walked away feeling like rockstars despite the fact the there were only about 8 people in the room. the second was a month or so after that at the miuc festival. we both argeed that it was fairly terrible. boring more than anything. which is, I think, terrible thing. because the last thing the world needs is boring, uninspired free music. there's enough dodgy, uncreative noise being made and it puts people off the whole genre which is a tragedy.

For me, the key seems to be preparation. it seems silly to spend all day learning a tune for virus, or spending hours on hours rehearsing for someones project band, and then putting absolutely no energy into preparing for a free gig just because it's improvised. Obviously different preperations are required, but even pre-preparing a couple of concepts in your head, deciding what junk and pedals to bring, a couple of melodies even....

i dunno, seems to work for me.