Releasing a debut jazz album in Australia?

[andgar]

I've recently been chatting with a lot of people about how to go about releasing my group's (although this could hypothetically be anyone's) first album. So I'd like to open a discussion about how a mid 20s jazz musician in Australia (I'm in Brisbane) should go about this.

I'm not interested in discussing whether I'm ready/my music is good enough/there is an audience for the music etc., but generally what is the best way to try and get a first album out there.

My intention is to fund the actual recording myself (but I know a lot of people get a grant to cover this), and I'm happy to pay for the entire release (a few grand I figure... more...?), so an independent release would be achievable.

But surely there's much to be gained from releasing something on a well known Australian jazz label (Rufus and Jazzhead are the main examples in my mind) and the association with all the great music that's already been put out by those labels. These are independent labels anyway, so I imagine there's not too much of the "record label" crap that's usually a big issue. Also, I'm not looking to make money on this - I know I won't get any money back, this is more an exercise in getting my group's music in front of the larger Australian jazz community.

So how does this work - do you just send them the master and see if they like it? Then who pays for the production of the physical "album", artwork, etc.? (I assume the artist, particularly in the case of a first timer).

[antboy]

hi, this an interesting topic that has maybe already been covered here,
I guess the benefit of being on a label could be that they do all the crap work, ie: sending out promo copies to the press, radio etc, and the main job (as I see it) of getting the CD distributed so that people who may read the revue or hear it on the radio would actually see it in a shop and be able to maybe even buy it!

in my experience ( which is not huge, but I've been on 3 or so discs released by labels, and numerous self released CDs), its been pretty frustrating trying to find labels that promise or do anything that we (musicians) couldn't do ourselves. as l say l have only been on a few labels but the constant reports l get back from other musicians don't really convince me that there are many labels doing a good job of this. if they manage to get some kind of distribution scheme in australia happening it is in pretty limited stores, and hardly any (any?) manage to get overseas distribution or even send it out to be reveiwed in international press.

for me I've had a few releases on labels that have done next to nothing, it has been us (the musicians) that have husseled reveiws, even left copies of the CD on consignment at numerous stores because the copies the label had sent to the store had sold but the label hadn't restocked the shop. basically we did what we thought the label wasn't doing well enough and what it should do, and then got told to stop being ungrateful and doing thier job.

so well, yeah, sorry to say it but my advice would be put it out yourself, or try to start some kind of collective ( jazzgroove in sydney seem to have done this with some success) where people can make their music more available without having to rely on lables as such.
lts not that hard now, recording is no where near as expensive as it used to be, and the production costs are also much cheaper than they ever been before. (a place in sydney called Dual Plover can print 500 CDs really cheap) and the so called 'prestige' of being on a label could definately be a good thing in terms of your music reaching wider audiences, however how beneficial is that prestige if no-one knows about the CD because there are no reveiws and radio play and when your cds aren't even in shops.

as difficult as it may be to pay for the production at least you will own all copies and be able to pay yourself back over time from sales, even if it most of it is from gigs. also sending out 5 copies to shops around the country and then chase up the $15 from a sold copy is a drag for sure, but again at least you can take comfort in the fact that it is actually in the shop. most independant stores are pretty open to taking CDs on consigment in my experience.

[sb]

I agree with Antboy. If you start your own label and put the Cds into the stores that are most likely to sell your music and promote the disc through radio, print media, big posters (only need one large poster at the key stores) and gigs, you will probably do better than going with a label.
It seems that the role of record labels is changing constantly at the moment and that most of what a label does a motivated individual can do for themselves.
The question of who pays is interesting. If the label pays for the CD manufacture you will probably end up getting around $3 a cd (even after the label has made the investment back) and will have to buy the discs from the label. If you pay the extra cost of manufacture, artwork and barcode yourself you can get around $11 a disc through a distributer.
If you distribute the CDs yourself you can get $20 a CD.
These days it seems that it's not much use having a CD in every store as the chance of selling your Australian jazz CD in Sanity (if they even take it) is a lot lower than selling dozens of the same disc at birdland, blue beat, dah dahs, or discurio.
I've really enjoyed the process of starting a little homespun lable and have been really surprised at the support given by the media and shop owners (like Kieran at Birdland).
Good luck.

[alimcg]

On that point of sb's re Sanity, most big stores don't do consignments. They only deal with a select range of distibutors (some more select than others).

[andgar]

Thanks for all the responses - very useful input from my perspective. Thanks antboy for the tip on previous discussion - gracemusic.proboards26.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1119579233 this is a good one on oz record labels that explains some of the inner workings.

For me the real goal is to get the music out there, with very little concern for income from the recording. I know for other young musos econmics may be more of an issue, but surely early in your career exposure is the main goal? Maybe being in Brisbane gives me a slightly different slant, because my goal is purely to get some Melbourne/Sydney jazz scene exposure in order to get a few gigs down south next year (international exposure is not even in the back of my mind at the moment). Currently no one in Melbourne or Sydney is vaguely aware of us, so my thinking is that it would be difficult to get anyone to listen to an independent release.

If I decide to try and get on a label, I've been tossing up whether we should tour first to prove to a label that we're "worthy" of their help, or whether we need a recognised album (most easily achieved via a label) in order to snag decent gigs in Melb or Sydney. Will venues down south even bother listening to an independent release of a group from Brisbane with no tangible credentials?

[antboy]

hi, l think it's much much easier to get a few gigs in melbourne and maybe sydney than it would be to get a record out on a label. some venues maybe would give you a gig based on a recording but it's probably better to know a few of the musicians around town that organise gigs, myspace can be good for making contact with some musicians.

[aka]

Send your music to Mal at Jazztrack..he'll have a listen and give you some advice I'm sure...

[sb]

I know what you mean about wanting to get the music out there Andgar but I think it's good for musicians to think about the economics of releasing a CD so that they have some income going towards the next disc.
For me, sustainability is a key issue with recodings. You want to keep making CDs that reflect your musical development but it's difficult to come up with recording costs each year or so. If you plan ahead so that any funds coming in from the sales of this disc will pay for the next one, you're on the way to creating a body of work.
I've been told by several established musicians that the more discs they release, the better all the titles in their catalogue sell.
I know it's early days for your group but it is worth looking ahead so that you can keep recording. It feels like there's too many bands out there who only record one CD and find it difficult to finance the followup.

[bodgey]

Cap, you should tell the story of your two discs, it's a good insight.
From my point of few, do the recording yourself, get the art done yourself, get the pressing done yourself, own the product entirely!!

Then, start booking a shitload of gigs. Tour tour tour tour tour tour.
It's fun, the music develops, you sell CDs on the gig, people start to know the name. Slow process, but rewarding.

I get the feeling that you feel like I did approaching the Melb scene coming from Tassie......Melb is the big time and it's harder etc, and maybe there's some truth in that because melb is full of great musicians, but get yourself out there and believe it what you do.

At the end of the day, there's no such thing as a free lunch, and no one's gonna sell your shit for you without taking a hefty bite out of it. Indie is the way of the future. Also, check out cdbaby.com and get the online thing going. Ask Jon Delaney about it!

[captain]

I like the comment about having a larger catalogue. Anyone want to lend me money so I can put out a 3rd record?

[alimcg]

I got $20 of change in my hallway...

[trumpetguy]

alimcg said:

I got $20 of change in my hallway...

Not such a bad idea - if 100 of us pledge $20 cap has 2 grand towards the next CD - maybe we can establish our own funding body for all sorts of things?
Any ideas how we could make it work?

[andgar]

There are 100 of "us"? if only...

But on the topic of funding - how cheaply do you reckon you could do (or have you already done) a decent/convincing independent album? $1000 recording and mixing, $1000 artwork and packaging, $1000 to musicians? $3000 in total? (i know this could be a kind of personal question, so ballpark figures are cool)

[trumpetguy]

andgar said:

There are 100 of "us"? if only...

But on the topic of funding - how cheaply do you reckon you could do (or have you already done) a decent/convincing independent album? $1000 recording and mixing, $1000 artwork and packaging, $1000 to musicians? $3000 in total? (i know this could be a kind of personal question, so ballpark figures are cool)

ok, if 20 of us put in $100.........

[dq]

The cost of funding a recording depends on a lot of things. Like, where you going to record, who is going to record it, mastering, graphic design, packaging, rehearsals, session time for the musicians plus more... But you can find very competitve prices on CD printing and packaging through the Australian Music Industry Directory, but you have to buy the book, it comes out annually.

So for what it's worth, to do it well and have it sound really good, $7000+