Melbourne Jazz Fringe Festival

[captain]

Canada is a good point. I would be interested to hear more about how they fund their Jazz scene.

Yes you are right all business' access public funds at some point (even if its only in the form of tax breaks etc).

Miles is a little different from the others since his career was set up and controlled by a major record company that stuck by him even when he wasn't putting out good product.

I'm more interested in artists (and I'm talking about Americans here) who control every aspect of their business and work the market to their advantage. You know, an 'If you cant beat them, join them' mentality.

I just think its worth thinking long and hard about the US approach, as creative musos over there probably have way less access to public money than us.

John Zorn is probably another good example to discuss, a self made man, he owns his own production companies doesn't he? I can't believe he sells any records but hey...... ;D

I know he recieved a couple of big grants but in general he is very entrepreneurial yeah?

[ironguts]

Steve Coleman. Tim Burne. They're both pretty active that way. Dave Douglas (Greenleaf) there must be a few. Tis the way to go but does need much energy and a certain personality type, not all musos are up for that angle.

When I think about the amount of money that does go into Opera and Classical Mainstream it does make my intestines feel all strange and gooey. Yes even more than normal. So many average musicians on a big salary (yes many very good ones too) playing very old music and often not the best choice of the old stuff either. Then look at the money that goes to some of the conductors!! Fucking outrageous. Fair enough if all the money they received was through savvy commercial practices, but government subsidized money for some lame cunt to wave his arms about for $20,000 a week, what a load of bollocks.
We certainly don't need a funded Orchestra in every state, and as for Opera, well, everything has it's place I guess but does it need so much money? Some people are not just surviving but are getting rich, there go my bowels again,
oh god, need clean undies now.
Just to be positive for a sec, despite the struggle, there is so much good stuff being created by Ausy artists, the next decade would be a great time to up the anti somehow. So maybe PR's article will at least increase the discussion where it matters, lets hope so.

[punter]

ironguts said:

Then look at the money that goes to some of the conductors!! Fucking outrageous. Fair enough if all the money they received was through savvy commercial practices, but government subsidized money for some lame cunt to wave his arms about for $20,000 a week, what a load of bollocks.

Mate as usual you are spot on and your deployment of the Oz vernacular deserves some sort of prize
Might I add, in contrast, just look at how much jazz musicians produce with the meagre funds given. It makes my guts feel funny too.

[vickibonet]

punter said:

I agree with the reservations about the word 'jazz' but it's tricky... what do you call all of this music that guts mentions. My view is that we just claim the word and redefine it. Still, having the word 'jazz' in the Jazz Fringe Festival or Jazz Groove still does stick with me a bit because it seems that the music that is represented by both these organisations is moving further away from idiomatic jazz, but what would you replace it with? 'Creative Music'? 'Contemporary Improvised Music'?
As for funding... I think there is a bit of a case for developing national audiences for Creative Improvised Contemporary Music... OK jazz... In Canada, which has some similarities to Australia in terms of geography and population, they have an integrated national approach and it's a helluva lot easier there to get touring happening.
As for capitalism... don't forget that record companies actually had money that they could give Miles. And since when was accessing government funding NOT entrepreneurial? Most businesses would get nowhere without it. We just need to get better at lobbying for how funding is distributed... the percentage that goes to original, creative Australian is depressingly small. So much goes to orchestras and opera companies flogging the European classical canon. It's totally fucked up

Canada is fairer to musicians in some respects: e.g. new local music gets more mandatory air time than Australia by a large percentage, however, I recall a Canadian jazz festival artistic director speaking at a Wangaratta forum a few years back saying that they would never be able to get so many people to a festival in Canada that featured so many homegrown acts. He said he thought Wang was unique that way I recall.

The funding thing is extremely frustrating too.

[punter]

At the risk of offending any Canadian musos who might be reading... personally I think that's because our local music scene has a greater number of interesting artists.

[ironguts]

You bastard, oh wait, I'm not Canadian, yep, you're right.

[captain]

Yeah Steve Coleman is another good example, he runs all his own business maybe.

[vickibonet]

punter said:

At the risk of offending any Canadian musos who might be reading... personally I think that's because our local music scene has a greater number of interesting artists.

Watch it - Glenn Gould, kd lang, Brian Adams, Celine Dion and Joni Mitchell are all really pissed at you now, even though one of them is dead

[ironguts]

God you got em covered there, a poof, dyke, hippy, bogan and a manikin! Can you match em up? Yeah, let's go pc. All great Improvising Artists too.

[isaacs]

vickibonet said:

punter said:

At the risk of offending any Canadian musos who might be reading... personally I think that's because our local music scene has a greater number of interesting artists.

Watch it - Glenn Gould, kd lang, Brian Adams, Celine Dion and Joni Mitchell are all really pissed at you now, even though one of them is dead

And Kenny Wheeler, Oscar Peterson

[ironguts]

Now there's some names.

[isaacs]

On your earlier point about swinging - but not in a classic jazz way - Glenn Gould swings his ass off playing Bach. Motherfucker.

[isaacs]

ironguts said:

Now there's some names.

Oh - and Diana Krall But we've done her here already...

[ironguts]

I didn't do her,not my type. GG? yep, motherfucher.

[punter]

Yeah OK fuck I forgot about them... in seriousness though they all go and live/work somewhere else. It's kind of the advantage of our 'tyranny of distance' it means a lot of really fucking incredible musicians stay here and work and make music and make festivals like Wang amazing.
And it seems like that's becoming even more common. People 15 years ago felt they had to go and live in New York but not so much now... or is it my imagination?? Do I have an imagination??