Melbourne Jazz Collective

[don jordan]

OK. I've read all the Fringe Festival and Recent Intellectual Triumphs posts. I've also been around long enough to hear the same things said over and over with respect to whether jazz musos are owed a living by society, what is jazz, etc., etc. Jazz is a lot of things to a lot of people. It contains lots of wonderful music played by creative, passionate musicians from Jelly Roll Morton on. There is as much a place - and an audience - for older styles of jazz (i.e. anything more than 10 years old) as there is for cutting-edge improvised sound material or whatever it is you want to call it. I believe it is up to musicians themselves to make gigs happen - if support funding can be found as well, then whoopee!

I currently lead two jazz groups of a "historical" nature, the music of which consists of great compositions and arrangements and with room for as much improvising as wanted. A lot of people grew up with these musics and relish the opportunity to hear them performed live. I believe this situation to be no different from the performance of all the classical repertoire, from 'ancient' music to contemporary composers. There is an audience for music from all periods. Good music is good music.

I have a proposal. Are there 5 or 6 other band leaders, or musos who would like to lead bands, out there who would join me in finding a room of reasonable size, in reasonable condition - say at the back of, or upstairs at, a pub or restaurant - with the object of hiring it for seven nights a week to present jazz? Each band would get a night each week, if they wanted it, or could arrange for other bands to play according to some agreed roster on their night. Nights for bands would be rotated - say, month about - so that everyone gets a fair go. Each band would pay the same rent and share of expenses, which would be the first claim on the nights takings, and whatever's left would go to the musicians. The pressure would be on each band to attract audiences, which I think is as it should be, in order to play their full role in the Collective.

Obviously there are lots of details to be worked out, but I think this could work if there are enough people with the determination, good will, and loyalty out there. It could be done on, say, a 3 month trial basis to start with. That would reduce the risk. Do I have a constructive response? Are you willing to have a go? Let me know.

[vickibonet]

Great idea - London Musician's Collective worked well like this out of an old factory for years.

[captain]

I'd do it but only if there was a working piano. Mind you 7 nights is probably too ambitious for this scene.

[vickibonet]

May 3, 2008 16:24:38 GMT 10 captain said:

I'd do it but only if there was a working piano. Mind you 7 nights is probably too ambitious for this scene.

You could perhaps share it with people who want to have a space for choir practice or dance workshops.

There was a music school in Brixton that used to run 6 nights a week workshop classes, it did pretty well. I know the CAE does music but nothing that interesting.

[don jordan]

Thanks for the feedback, folks, especially yours, Vicki. It sounds as though we may have had some similar experiences. When Ronnie Scott moved his jazz club in London to better premises in the mid-60s, he kept what he called The Old Place and made it available to young musos and bands. Many of the English jazz stars made their names there (Mike Westbrook, John Surman, Mike Osborne, Alan Skidmore, Graham Collier, etc.). That was so generous and far-sighted.

Maybe seven nights a week is more than can be supported, but I thought it would be good to have a room exclusively devoted to jazz, and a guaranteed weekly rental might be good business for the room's owner. I thought that a policy of having a variety of jazz styles presented would help to attract more people. I think it's important to have a physically pleasant room - again so as to attract a greater age range, for instance, and also people who just wouldn't go to a lot of the rooms in which more experimental and progressive is presented (because they're just too grungy and uncomfortable).

What I'd like to hear is a chorus of "Count me in"s from lots of optimistic, enthusiastic, dedicated musos who genuinely want lots of people to hear their music, and who are willing to put in some effort to make this idea work. I believe they're out there, and are perhaps just lacking the confidence to imagine widely enough, or to believe that they could help make it happen.

I'd like to hear more of your experience, Vickib, as it sounds as though you could help with really practical knowledge of what's been done successfully elsewhere.

I'm not going to attempt to do this on my own. As a bandleader, I've enough on my plate to try and take on the chores of others as well. The sad thing I've found is that there are lots of musos who are happy to be rung up to play (when someone else has done all the organising), but who aren't willing to do something for themselves and start a band and hunt for venues and gigs. When you're a bandleader, there sometimes seems to be no time to actually play other than on the stand, and that's not good for my playing or my musicianship.

Are there half a dozen people out there who are willing to act collectively with me and make something really good happen?

[vickibonet]

May 10, 2008 21:55:57 GMT 10 don jordan said:

Thanks for the feedback, folks, especially yours, Vicki. It sounds as though we may have had some similar experiences. When Ronnie Scott moved his jazz club in London to better premises in the mid-60s, he kept what he called The Old Place and made it available to young musos and bands. Many of the English jazz stars made their names there (Mike Westbrook, John Surman, Mike Osborne, Alan Skidmore, Graham Collier, etc.). That was so generous and far-sighted.

Maybe seven nights a week is more than can be supported, but I thought it would be good to have a room exclusively devoted to jazz, and a guaranteed weekly rental might be good business for the room's owner. I thought that a policy of having a variety of jazz styles presented would help to attract more people. I think it's important to have a physically pleasant room - again so as to attract a greater age range, for instance, and also people who just wouldn't go to a lot of the rooms in which more experimental and progressive is presented (because they're just too grungy and uncomfortable).

What I'd like to hear is a chorus of "Count me in"s from lots of optimistic, enthusiastic, dedicated musos who genuinely want lots of people to hear their music, and who are willing to put in some effort to make this idea work. I believe they're out there, and are perhaps just lacking the confidence to imagine widely enough, or to believe that they could help make it happen.

I'd like to hear more of your experience, Vickib, as it sounds as though you could help with really practical knowledge of what's been done successfully elsewhere.

I'm not going to attempt to do this on my own. As a bandleader, I've enough on my plate to try and take on the chores of others as well. The sad thing I've found is that there are lots of musos who are happy to be rung up to play (when someone else has done all the organising), but who aren't willing to do something for themselves and start a band and hunt for venues and gigs. When you're a bandleader, there sometimes seems to be no time to actually play other than on the stand, and that's not good for my playing or my musicianship.

Are there half a dozen people out there who are willing to act collectively with me and make something really good happen?

Hey what about the Fringe - that is run by musicians, and Half Bent too.

You don't want my help. I work for the government now and my brain is decaying rapidly.

[aj]

vickibonet said:

I work for the government now and my brain is decaying rapidly.

Is that what it says on your business card?

[captain]

Look out for that guy Sonny's new club, its opening on brunswick st soon. perhaps he would rent it out to a collective on the nights he isn't doing anything. I heard he was putting on music maybe thursday thru saturday but maybe more, maybe less.

[vickibonet]

May 11, 2008 10:15:28 GMT 10 aj said:

vickibonet said:

I work for the government now and my brain is decaying rapidly.

Is that what it says on your business card?

Luckily I still have enough brains not to get around to ordering any. So apart from this forum, it is a secret.

[erin]

The Collective sounds like a good idea in general but like you said there are a lot of specifics to be nutted out.
Do you have a venue in mind? also, what happens to the band that gets a crappy day for the first month and doesn't make enough on the door to cover their share of the rent? it would take quite some time to build up a crowd.
How will you get a band to take on the commitment of the collective if they won't make as much as they would on another gig?
For the collective to work it would require a very good relationship with the venue manager/owner (I think this may be rare).
There would also be marketing costs and, depending on the venue, gear costs (e.g pa, staging, piano)
Maybe you should consider getting a weekly residency somewhere and then adding another band on another night- Build things up slowly.
There are, of course, many benefits. Bands rarely get the luxury of regular weekly gigs where they get to play what they want and there are never too many live music venues in my opinion.
I just get the feeling that this may require a whole lot more work than it seems.

[shagz]

Perhaps we don't need new things, but time and money invested into older ones...

[ironguts]

Lebowskys, Make it up, Fringe, MJCo-Op, Blank Tape, Half Bent, lots out there, all good. I agree Shaggaz, lets make more of the great stuff we do have.
I guess the main difference is these things put on a variety of groups rather than a group having a regular night. If it is regular you want though there are places that it is possible if you wish to do the work. 303 for example. But how many groups could maintain a weekly residency even on the level of getting the same musos? Let alone trying to get the punters.

[don jordan]

Erin said: "There are, of course, many benefits. Bands rarely get the luxury of regular weekly gigs where they get to play what they want and there are never too many live music venues in my opinion." Thank you.

What got me going down this line of thinking is that there is a lot of emphasis on festivals in the Forum, but these only give a few musos one gig in a year. My concern is for places where bands can play at least weekly, in order to build up the group cohesion and familiarity between musos that has, in my experience, been a feature of the bands I've liked the most.

I appreciate greatly all the opportunities that the local organisations mentioned in replies have given, and are giving. I also appreciate that they are run by musos, who put in large amounts of time. However, as far as I know, each organisation depends on the hard work of a few people. The sad truth is that, because each of the few organisers is so flat out in a short time scale, it seems to be less hassle for them to do the stuff themselves, than to chase up more people to spread the load. Actually, I think they probably finish up exhausted and wonder why they do it!! I speak from experience in organising all sorts of musical and non-musical stuff - it's just how things mostly happen.

Maybe one way of "investing time and money into older ones" is for these existing groups to come together and find the sort of place I am thinking of - then each organisation could have one night a week for their activities.

It's easy to think of lots of difficulties with ideas such as this - some replies make this clear!! But I don't see things that way - I look at the benefits that could accrue, and see the 'difficulties' as just things that have to be dealt with on the way to achieving something really valuable. I'm trying to see ways of sharing the loads that individual organisations bear, so that people have more time to compose and perform, rather than being stuck with the same admin/organising tasks that each organisation faces.

I don't have a specific venue in mind. I have some ideas of types of rooms, though, that would meet my criteria. I prefer not to think of having problems with the owner of a place - if they're not open to a reasonable proposal, then I'd look somewhere else. See, I think there is a place just waiting to be found, with an owner who will be delighted at musos taking the initiative in doing something that will benefit both them and music fans, and who will want to be as helpful as possible. However, this person and place will have to be looked for, and the more the merrier doing the looking.

My idea of a 'collective' is that everyone would contribute to costs, and everyone take a fair share of the profits. I've a PA that could be used initially, for example. Each group would supply their own keyboard until a levied fund, for instance, had enough in it to buy one for the venue. Maybe a good case could be made to a sponsor for providing one on loan or lease (or an application for a grant from the gummint to buy one!). Doing things collectively means everyone taking responsibility for the success of the venture, the security of the equipment in the room, cleaning up, and so on. That way, each individual (or individual organisation) only needs to do part of the total work, instead of all of it. Sounds good to me.

If people don't think they can make enough money this way, that's OK. My idea is not for a money-making venture - it's for musos to have a good place to play regularly in, and that's under their control. An agreement would have to be reached with the owner on the terms of occupation. That's not too hard, especially if it's with someone who supports the whole idea, and can see something in it for them.

Look, nothing happens without the investment of time and effort - you can see this negatively as "work" or you can see it positively as "fun" that's going to have a great outcome. Anyone want to have some fun?

[vickibonet]

only if you pay