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Post by VHB on Aug 22, 2004 13:27:58 GMT 10
Re: "One of Australia's"
I don't think this phrase is ever intended as a put down Adrian, but I do think it is superfluous, and for me it grates.
Had many discussions with people here about this oft repeated phrase in relation to music here. I do know the phrase annoys some musicians who hold Australian passports. (As does the term 'world class' for different reasons.)
Why does Geography need to come into it anyway? If one must mention location how about
one of the Pacific's or
one of the southern hemisphere's or
one of planet earth's etc.
or one of Brunswick's
one of Adelaide's
To Bod:
I presume you are talking about Auckland, right?
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Post by Kenny on Aug 22, 2004 14:43:42 GMT 10
To Bod: I presume you are talking about Auckland, right? Nah, I suspect - and I'm quite curious - that if NZ has any sort of jazz scene going it'd be in Wellington or Dunedin. (The fact I was born/raised in the latter and lived for some time in the former has nothing to do with it!) Hay - can I move to Australia, too?  |
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Post by aj on Aug 22, 2004 21:08:09 GMT 10
Vicki, I remember you complaining that the phrase was over-used in the Wangaratta program, but (a) I really don't see what's objectionable about it and (b) what's a better alternative ?
To say that X is, e.g., one of Australia's leading pianists is to put them on a par with some major talents (Nock, Chindamo, Grabowsky, Gould, Abrahams, Saarelaht, Sedergreen, Gebert, Isaacs, Hunt, Ottignon, MacNamara, Bailey, Keevers, Fitzgibbon, Hopkins, etc etc etc). It also suggests that they've achieved some degree of acclaim / recognition outside their home town.
Do you suggest that it's better to decree that X should be described as Australia's no. 1 pianist ? (relegating the others to also-ran status) ?
Or do we chauvinistically state that X is one of the world's greatest pianists, even though no one's never heard of them in 99% of jazz circles overseas ?
Or am I missing the point (which might suggest you haven't made it crystal clear) ?
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Post by Kenny on Aug 22, 2004 21:18:53 GMT 10
Or do we chauvinistically state that X is one of the world's greatest pianists, even though no one's never heard of them in 99% of jazz circles overseas ? Adrian, having had some recent experience of northern hemisphere chauvinism at Jazz Corner, all I can say is: Does the fact somebody hasn't been widely heard make them any less great? I don't think so. Actually, I can imagine Christchurch having a bit of jazz scene, too, although I've never lived there and I wasn't born/raised there as far as I'm aware. |
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Post by aj on Aug 22, 2004 21:58:50 GMT 10
Of course it doesn't make them less talented or less worth hearing, Kenny ! But it might make the use of the adjective 'great' somewhat questionable.
My point is that you're kidding yourself is you think that because someone is recognised as a great talent in, say, melbourne, they have achieved recognition as such on the world stage, no matter how talented they are.
(I'm not 100% sure that IS what Vicki's saying, by the way).
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Post by aj on Aug 22, 2004 22:05:44 GMT 10
Actually, referring more directly to the job of writing all the bios in the Wangaratta program, which I think is where Vicki found the 'one of Australia's etc' line so grating : the point I'm trying to make is that it isn't a backhander, that being one of the best players in melbourne (etc) IS a substantial claim to fame, so I can't see what's so objectionable about it.
The bit about whether someone is better recognised internationally refers to whether it's valid to say : X is Sydney's top trumpeter, so therefore X should be described as one of the world's best trumpeters. I suggest that the program would make for pretty boring reading if every player therin was described in such terms !
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Post by royboy on Aug 23, 2004 10:35:48 GMT 10
Hey Adrian, who is this X you keep refering to? They must be pretty good. Is it Phil Slater? Hes the best trumpeter in Syd, or is that Aus? Oh well hes bloody good anyhow.
Maybe from now on you should just give everyone a star rating so we know just how good they are.
I recon your a 5 star festival runner personally, one of Australias best!
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Post by aj on Aug 23, 2004 10:53:44 GMT 10
Ha !!
thanks Scott !
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Post by Clancy on Aug 23, 2004 14:03:13 GMT 10
So, still thinking of moving to Australia, IDBP?
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Post by Kenny on Aug 23, 2004 16:25:30 GMT 10
I recon your a 5 star festival runner personally, one of Australias best! Hey - BFD. It's a very small field.  |
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Post by aj on Aug 23, 2004 17:28:03 GMT 10
Yeah, thanks for pointing that out kenny !
& you're one of the better presenters on PBS on a Monday night.
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Post by Kenny on Aug 23, 2004 20:36:18 GMT 10
Ahhh, mate, that's you and me - a big fish and a not-so-big fish in a small pond.  |
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Post by Royboy on Aug 24, 2004 13:46:46 GMT 10
Tadpoles in a glass of water - wait- here comes a leg!!!!
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Post by Vicki on Aug 26, 2004 1:31:37 GMT 10
Maybe this yearning for a jazz world where nationality is not an issue is a girly thing. I didn’t realise I had the capacity to upset the apple cart to such an extent, which it seems I may have done. Oh dear.
Adrian: I do recall now pointing out the thing about the Australian line from your Wangaratta programme, but how long ago was that? How many times have we been chatting where ever in ? many places and you never mentioned that it clearly had rubbed you up the wrong way? I am surprised and if I have offended you please accept my sincere and public apology.
The phrase drives me potty, true. But alas you hear it EVERYWHERE! As far as the Wangaratta programme goes, I've assumed (and I know some others who agree) that a festival with a standard that high, that any musician performing there would be top rate, therefore one doesn't need reminding that they are "one of anywhere's greatest". The whole festival is great, mate. ('cept for the bits I don't like.)
Kenny: so you now are one of New Zealand's greatest Monday night jazz presenters in Melbourne which is one of Australia's greatest Jazz cities, yeah?
Now will one of you gentlemen please tell me who the fuck won the Bell awards and who had the biggest tantrum? It is not on the MIJF website. In fact the website says I still have a week left in which to vote!
Perhaps Jerry will get typing, or perhaps he already has.
IDBP: Melbourne really is "one of the world's greatest places" to live. Despite the bickering, we are really very fond of each other in the Jazz scene here. Just remember to pack your flack jacket and learn how to duck.
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Post by aj on Aug 26, 2004 8:32:33 GMT 10
No, I didn't take offence, so much as being puzzled as to why it so irks you.
Don't worry Vicki, you're one of Australia's keenest jazz supporters !
The Bells night was most enjoyable ; you should have been there, if only to witness some of the fashion statements (eg messrs Wilson & Magnusson),
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