National Jazz Awards

[Hot lips]

Really interesting discussion about the National Jazz Awards happening at abcjazz.net.au/features/congratulations-eamon-mcnelis#comment-1858

[isaacs]

Once again I wasn't at Wangaratta this year, so definitely make no direct comment on the judge's decision.

But knowing some of Matt Jodrell's work it is a big surprise for me to consider that there is any trumpeter in Australia under 35 that could surpass him. I consider him extraordinarily mature as a jazz artist and indeed I have privately approached him for mentoring advice. Having said that, I better get to know Eamon's work to gain more understanding about the decision and of course to know the work itself.

What is quite surprising in the ABC Jazz thread is to see two eminent figures in the Australian jazz world (Graham Wood and Garry Lee) posting under their own name and openly dissenting from or questioning the judges' choices.

Interesting times.

[aj]

I might not agree with everything Graham & Garry have said in that discussion ; but good on them for posting their opinions under their own names, rather than as 'Anonymous'.

[Feeding frenzy]

AJ, can someone please explain to me how posting as anonymous in anyway detracts from the legitimacy of a persons post? What the hell does it matter for you to know that I am a plumber working for the waterboard living in Padstow with my wife and two kids. Or do the jazz police want to hunt down these dissenters. Of course Adrian,only those who have been on this forum for some time would know who AJ was. It took me a long time for me to realise your identity.

On another point Adrian I must congratulate you on another wonderful festival. After Lovano & Schofield I really thought the festival had dropped in terms of it's pulling power and that might be the case. However, the last 2 years have been fantastic. I think the key is to being open to experiencing music you wouldn't ordinarily listen to or don't know about. This year despite the controversy ( and I have been a critic of the judging elsewhere) I thought the jazz competition was the best thing I saw and of the very highest quality. Oliver Lake and his band were amazing and Andrea Keller sublime. There is really something wonderful about this festival. I attend every year dragging my non jazz loving family along. It shouldn't really work, jazz in a small country town but somehow it does so in such a spectacular manner, rain or not. And whilst there are little things that can be improved the festival organisers and the volunteers should really take a bow. AJ, what about John Surman next year?

[Thelonious]

Mark, you commented ' once again I wasn't at Wangaratta'. Did you mean by this that you wanted to play in the festival? As a punter it got me curious as to what the process is for playing at the festival?

[alimcg]

It's one thing to say that you disagree with the judges, but what I saw at the abc thread was hostility completely out of proportion with the topic. By all means, let's disagree, have a good discussion about relative merits and so-on. A competition like this will never have a result that is satisfactory to all - it's not a sporting competition - but how about actually laying out a clear case, instead of resorting to the kind of immature debate more suited to a Collingwood supporters' forum! (sorry, couldn't help myself!)

And as for anonymity, it may help bring openness to some discussions, but in this case it smacks of cowards hiding behind it to throw mud.

[Feeding Frenzy]

I'm sorry but I disagree entirely with your comment about hostility shown on that forum. Indeed I invite you to (as I have) go back and read all the comments and specify the hostility you claim. I must say that the fact that respected jazz figures such as Graham Wood and Gary Lee have joined the debate should be reason enough for there to be a sensible and mature debate. The childish response relating to the anonymity of the posters is completely irrelevant especially when the majority of those involved in the debate have responded in a sensible & non emotional manner. Let's have the debate without merely trying to shut down legitimate comment. It can only help the awards I'm sure in the long run.

[aj]

FF, firstly thanks for your positive comments ; glad you enjoyed the festival and plan to return!

Re the debate on the ABC site : some of the comments posted have been sensible and reasoned, but some of them have been, to say the least, verging on hostile, eg a suggestion that the judges based their decision on where Mat lives, statements that the result is absurd and damages the credibility of the competition, claims that Mat was 'clearly' superior in every respect, or that the audience is treated with contempt, etc etc. Such comments might be made anonymously when the poster's identity isn't really relevant ; but there is always the possibility that they might have an axe to grind, isn't there?

On the question of the choice of acts : every year, it is a matter of cutting down the list of bands I'd like to book, to a list of bands that can be fitted into the program & budget. For what it's worth, I did approach Mark this year, he couldn't accept for some reason (maybe a prior booking at Brisbane?)

Clarification : Mark has reminded me that we discussed his Resurgence Band, which I had intended to book for Wangaratta this year ; for reasons beyond his control (not a booking at Brisbane), that band was unavailable.

[ds]

hey guys, slightly off topic but still related to wang:

i can't find anywhere on the internet that lists all the winners AND place getters of all the wang comps over the years.

i am curious to see what names pop up here and there, and to further look them up so i can see/hear what these people are up to.

i was rehearsing with saxophonist graeme norris the other day and learned that he had placed 3rd in 1993. i had never known this as he'd never mentioned it - and i've known him for like, 6 years!

[aj]

The website (under National Jazz Awards) does list the winners. Maybe it should include the placegetters.....

[ds]

does aj =adrian jackson?

sorry man, i'm pretty much never on these forums so don't really follow things. anyway, do you think that it has actually been documented somewhere that is reasonably straight forward (for you at least) to access?

it would be great for me personally, and i'm sure other people, to know which players have come into prominence over the past 20 years... sorta get a better idea of how our national scene developed. knowing the winners is great too and it's got me listening to some great players over the years, but to me, that's kinda like only knowing of and listening to John Coltrane & Freddie Hubbard, but not really checking out Junior Cook and Art Farmer. that was a bad analogy, but you know what i'm getting at!

[aj]

If you go to the WangJazz website, click on National Jazz Awards. Click past winners to see who won in each year. (Hopefully we can add the placegetters for each year). You can also click on the names of some past winners, who sent their comments about the NJA experience for the 2009 Festival program...........we thought they were worth keeping on the website.

[ds]

sorry miscommunication - i know how to get all the past winners (that's how i got into barney mcall all those years ago!), it's specifically the place getters i'm after (and what i was referring to about you being able to access documentation). thanks aj

[aj]

ok, will see if I can get that info together.

[alimcg]

Nov 4, 2010 22:47:51 GMT 10 @Feeding Frenzy said:

I'm sorry but I disagree entirely with your comment about hostility shown on that forum. Indeed I invite you to (as I have) go back and read all the comments and specify the hostility you claim. I must say that the fact that respected jazz figures such as Graham Wood and Gary Lee have joined the debate should be reason enough for there to be a sensible and mature debate. The childish response relating to the anonymity of the posters is completely irrelevant especially when the majority of those involved in the debate have responded in a sensible & non emotional manner. Let's have the debate without merely trying to shut down legitimate comment. It can only help the awards I'm sure in the long run.

One might hope that the likes of Graham and Gary joining a debate would keep it sensible and mature, but it's not the case.

I'll leave it at aj's response regarding hostility.

Regarding anonymity, there are many instances where anonymity allows the truth to come out, and allows people of varying standings to engage in open conversation. But this must be followed up with something that can be verified. You can spout all the truth you like, but hiding behind anonymity doesn't lend gravitas. The issue is compounded here by the fact that one cannot tell if any of the anonymous posters are responding multiple times. Doesn't make for a great conversation "in response to anonymous..."

And who's trying to shut down legitimate comment. Good god man, get a grip. I'm engaging with you right now, and aj has been more than accommodating here and at the abc thread.

Finally, I think Eamon is a deserving winner, and any of the 3 would have been - and indeed many of the other 10 finalists, and many who were not even in the 10. I would suggest that many who say there was a "clear" winner probably have more than a hint of bias to start with, or are predisposed to a certain style of playing - and that's pretty bloody normal.

In the years to come, nobody will particularly care who won last weekend - Eamon will still be playing great, Matt will be playing great, Nick will be playing great. The winner doesn't take it all.