julian vs jamie?

[kimba]

I`m a long way away and all that, but I reckon Iron Guts has got a case of the green-eyed dragon...even if he`s not a horn player, he probably got a bit confused during the set and those little feelings of envy and fear rose up and so he swigged his beer and said `blah blah cunting tune` (which incidentally is very very funny, even if innapropriate and kind of lame)...

When you are playing your thing, you just gotta play it! I`ve always found listening to J & J hypnotic - everything kind of slows down and I`m just all ears - probably only understanding a tenth of what is going on, but my ears are loving it and my sound pores are soaking it up, and I`m growing and learning, growing up like a weed.

Once we worry about whether we are showing off, then we invite fear and doubt, two terrible ingredients that cancel out creativity and freedom.

Scrote - don`t go advertising the Terry Pratchett thing - sooo 1996 dude.

[tinky]

"Scott Tinkler's playing gives me the shits. he plays baffling music, that gives me a headache"

Johnny, how do you think it makes me feel? I don't just have to listen to the shit, I have to play it!
Its kind of like alchohol, it makes me sick but I can't stop.

Interesting thing about respect is I don't respect IG for being a total fuck, so I guess IG doesn't have to have respect for what I do.

[johnnymastropaulos]

Ok. JAmie: I never said you said any of those things, but I'm sure you've discussed the MIUC at some stage during you tenure in melbourne. basically I was just asking what you thought of it.

The point I was( very slowly) getting to here, is that at least "IronGuts" is getting out and seeing music that's not immediately in his sphere and not neccesarily to his taste, but enjoying it and learning from it nonetheless. That's not RESPECTFULL but it does show some RESPECT for other styles.
You mentioned earlier that you'd never heard "IronGuts" play.
I reckon you should go and check him out one day, and maybe heckle him (although you'll be fighting for heckling-airspace with his brother)
I think "IronGuts" has had a profound impact on the melbourne music scene, and even if his musci isn't to your taste, he's still a very important part of the fabric of this city in much the same way that you've been.

Ali: don't say those things (" I'm just a VOCALIST, right?"). We all respect you here and care about what you think. I'm sure what "IronGuts" said was innapropriate. and if you say that the cadenza wasn't showoffy, then I'm sure you're right. like i said I wasn't there.

Again at this point I'd like to re-iterate that I don't think showing off is neccesarily a bad thing.
what kimba said puts it perfectly.
"Once we worry about whether we are showing off, then we invite fear and doubt, two terrible ingredients that cancel out creativity and freedom."

And kimba: go to hell. Pratchett is so NOW it's not even funny.

tinkler: Your playing and alcohol are close to being my two favourite things in the world. maybe you've got something there: maybe you should release your won line of vodka "Tinklovsy Vodka" the perfect drink to accompany jazz that you just can't understand. cos god knows your rhythm sections don't do any accompaning.

[tinky]

Boy IG has certainly got things stirred up by his behaviour the other night. I just had a student that was at the gig and he said the heckle was way out of line and really spoiled a moment that had even further potential.
Still, as bad as the story goes, I had to laugh. I know that you were pissed of Jamie, but I do love a good heckle, only wish I were there to see it. Actually I wish I could have been at the gig but I'm a sole parent this week and no way I'd let Rex babysit.

Johnny, my own line of Vody hey, good idea, I'll get to work on that one. And about the accompanying thing, I think if you play with me you have to learn to ignore me, it's the only way. As we've discussed, it's hard for you and harder for me, imagine having to play along, poor cunts.

[jamie]

But like I said Tinky, you heckle people you know....

[aj]

Tinky, did you consider putting Mia in charge of Rex ?

[mim]

alison said:

and for the record, there was nothing "show-offy" about that cadenza- it was beautiful music being communicated through 2 incredible artists (thanks guys)... and the rude comment made by IG wasn't the worst thing to ever occur (duh) but it REALLY was inappropriate and appeared to come from a place of insecurity and/or jealousy if anything

Absofrigginlutely. I think there has probably been at least one person to think "fucking showoff" for every cadenza played in any genre in the history of music. If you're going to play a cadenza at all it seems you have to expect it. But it seems that under the influence of alcohol those people seem to forget that not only do the other people in the room not share that opinion, but also don't give a shit what they think.

What I heard on Wednesday was possibly the best music making I've heard since I've been in Melbourne. (Granted, that has only been 5 weeks, but still...) And I think it's just semantics as to whether you call it showing-off or, as Vicki put it, enjoying your skills and sharing them. All I know is, it was not a testosterone fuelled atmosphere at 303, just a helluva lot of energy.

And I think the guys handled Mr. Ironguts with suitable disdain. A chuckle from Danny, a short "fuck off" from Jamie, and on with the show. But it did ruin a good musical moment.

(Incidently, it seems "iron guts" is an ironic name for someone who appears not to handle is booze too well.)

[mim]

mim said:

alison said:

But it seems that under the influence of alcohol those people seem to forget that not only do the other people in the room not share that opinion, but also don't give a shit what they think.

Just thought I'd clarify (in case anyone takes this the wrong way), it's not that we should only be interested in opinions the same as our own, or that we should only be interested when the opinions are of a positive nature. Just that most people don't want to give much considered thought to comments that are seemingly fuelled by insecurity and, more importantly, beer.
_{(Just like you don't give much thought when a drunk acquaintance says, "I love you, man. No, really, you're my mest bate!", when you've only known them for half an hour.)}

[alison]

Hi Vicki!!! It's very good to be back... hope to see you soon!!

[shaggaz]

pardon me but doesn't the history of the word cadenza date back to 'displays of virtuosity'? nothing wrong with a bit of paganini-style yeah.

[ironguts]

Oh, can't handle my piss hey. So do you have any idea just how much I drank, no, and I wont tell you cause I'm not a show-off.
I did not spoil a musical moment because IT WAS NOT MUSICAL. Christ , I may have been pissed but its still my viewpoint.
BTW, Danny chuckled because he agrees with me. Laughing with, not at.
Now if I choose to stay and voice my opinion I see nothing wrong with that. I actually enjoyed most of the music and clapped and donated accordingly. Why can't I have a heckle if I wish too.
As for jealousy, if I yelled at a point I didn't like then why would I be jealous?
You guy's play the sax well, but it's not how I want to play it, was on ok gig on the most part though, except those cunts at the front table that kept talking,,,,no respect.

[ironguts]

BTW, no-one has addressed me directly, are you all scared to confront me?
You all seem to talk about, not to me. I find that shows much disrespect. God!

[jamie]

ironguts said:

Oh, can't handle my piss hey. So do you have any idea just how much I drank, no, and I wont tell you cause I'm not a show-off.
I did not spoil a musical moment because IT WAS NOT MUSICAL. Christ , I may have been pissed but its still my viewpoint.
BTW, Danny chuckled because he agrees with me. Laughing with, not at.
Now if I choose to stay and voice my opinion I see nothing wrong with that. I actually enjoyed most of the music and clapped and donated accordingly. Why can't I have a heckle if I wish too.
As for jealousy, if I yelled at a point I didn't like then why would I be jealous?
You guy's play the sax well, but it's not how I want to play it, was on ok gig on the most part though, except those cunts at the front table that kept talking,,,,no respect.

I'll talk to you Ironguts....What is and what isn't musical is obviously debatable depending on the listener. So you never miss? You're always on fire, never falter, the perfect improviser? I will come and check out the next gig you do that I can get to, just let me know when and where, and when you slip up or play a solo that isn't a flawless musical statement, I will stay quiet because I'm not a fucking child.

[tinky]

Hey Jamie, yes I have heckled maybe once ( mmm).
At least , like you say, I reserve the privialage ( jesus how do you spell that?) for my freinds. I might add too that I've probably recieved more than I've given. On many occassions its fun, but as IG showed, it can be just a pain in the arse.
Anyhow, on the showing off front, I agree with the idea that its not a bad thing. After all we spend those many hours learning shit to do what, never use it? Come on. It really can be in perception. Did Trane show off? No? But he was so amazing and did things no one had dreamed of. Is that a show off or simply someone using their skills for self exprssion?
Definately sounds a little like a feeling of inadequacy when you hear that term bandied around. I'll use whatever skill I have, and don't have, in order to get my idea across, fuck those who call it showing off. I could call Allan Brown a show off for swinging his arse off, or Grabowsky for playing chords I don't understand, or Julien for playing a note that tears your heart out, list could go on, but I'd be so so wrong.

[ironguts]

Jamie dear, are you admitting you faultered? The way you make it sound you were having trouble and maybe I was right but should have kept my mouth shut, maybe it's just the way I'm reading it.
Now I never said I was that good, I may in fact be quite average, but on the way. Not being good shouldn't stop me from having an opinion, after all there are people on here who don't play at all and really have no idea about standards etc except that they like them! Now that doesn't mean they can't have their say.
When you do see me play please feel free to offer your feelings, whether it be after in the car park or during from the audience ( if you stay long enough).
Thank you for at least addressing me, now we can chat like civilised cunts.
On the 'musical' front, last night I was watching Star Wars and couldn't work out what that beautiful caring creature Jab o the Hut saw in that scaggy skinny slapper the princess. Why would something so perfect go for something so wrong, there is no accounting for some peoples tastes I guess.