jamie
Full Member
Now to find a junkie...
Posts: 111
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Post by jamie on Mar 13, 2006 12:56:25 GMT 10
Thanks Mim  |
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Post by geofhughes on Mar 13, 2006 14:21:36 GMT 10
Thanks Tim....
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Post by geofhughes on Mar 13, 2006 14:34:18 GMT 10
gotya Tinky..
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tinky
Full Member
hello, how am I.
Posts: 230
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Post by tinky on Mar 13, 2006 17:44:46 GMT 10
what ya mean GH, gotya?
Yes maintaing your aesthetic on standards is a challenge, I'd still rather play originals though. I must say I do have fun playing standards, I'd just much rather record original material if I'm going to go to the trouble of doing a CD.
M6, I recon your fav musos probably mostly play original music or improvise. Either that or they played music at a time and place when 'standard' was not an issue. Maybe you could name a few and then we could discuss particulars. The use of the term 'standard jazz' was quite naff, sorry, sometimes its hard to come up with terms when it comes to music. Really there should be only two terms, good and shit.
JK, yes my earlier stuff does actually sound more in the vain of mainstream jazz, at the time I was more influenced by the early Wynton thing, which is of course a neatened up 60's Miles quintet vibe.
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Post by plunk on Mar 13, 2006 18:01:22 GMT 10
The bit about time being short....
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Post by geofhughes on Mar 14, 2006 10:03:17 GMT 10
I dont think there is an ethical veiwpoint on this - only aesthetic - and personal. My own approach to standards is that I will play the ones that resonate with me, and there are some that I just dont like ...
I saw Ben Monder do a standards gig in NY -it was just great music - I forgot he was playing Green Dolphin st... we had been discussing his 12 tone writing earlier in the week and I didnt get the impression that he saw either medium as being better or worse...
If you have a reason for playing music at all then its your own surely, theres no "its my way or the highway" unless you choose to subscribe to someone elses vision, to be taught and guided ,for insight , ideas, for whatever reason.
I feel that there is always pressure to turn this music into "something'
an entity that has a limited pedagogy that can be easliy prescribed and delivered. This pressure is political and pervasive and doesnt just affect music.
I dont feel that its a reflection on anyones conviction, to exercise tolerance of the myriad of ways people make this music work .
If I had to maintain any line on tradition - it would be the the aural tradition - and thats because it relies on an individual perspective - calling it as you hear it - which means all of the standards, playalongs, books , concepts and traditions are at your disposal if you honestly need them.
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alison
Junior Member
oobleeedoooobleee ah ah
Posts: 98
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Post by alison on Mar 14, 2006 10:59:05 GMT 10
Beautifully said, Geof...  |
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Post by giannim on Mar 14, 2006 11:25:00 GMT 10
Amen Geoff!! That is why you are the beautiful musician you are, and are able to play in any musical contexts. You and I used to play standards together all the time, and I was always inspired and moved by your approach. We recorded "Isn't it Romantic" on a Cd together and your playing was so beautiful.Style was irrelevent. It did'nt matter what you where playing.Keith Jarret on" La Scala' plays 3 compositions.2 are 'free' improvisations , 3 is "over the Rainbow". Do we dissmiss either/or depending purely on our frame of reference of what we think is real, honest music? Or, do we listen for the artistry in each track with an open mind and ear. Surely, there is no rule book on this!
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tinky
Full Member
hello, how am I.
Posts: 230
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Post by tinky on Mar 14, 2006 13:23:51 GMT 10
Agreed GH. I think that it is a conceptual issue rather than a practical one. Standards are not the problem, its the attitude to them that seems to limit some players. I've seen too often people playing standards and its the most unimaginative crap, but I've seen this too with originals. I'd rather hear an interesting player play standards than a dull player doing originals.
When I see young bands like Vada and 12 tones it excites me that they're so into their own stuff. This is where I believe the real learning is. If those guys only played standards, the creative fire would not be stoked anywhere near what it is. I would even go as far as to say that they sound much better on the original music than on standards. Now this may be due to many factors, but really who cares? If you don't know many standards, but sound great playing original stuff, that is a lot more fun in my book.
The other aspect for me is enviroment. I don't mean the gig but the band. Its so important to have other players that are somewhat in the ballpark of your aesthetic. When I saw Ken Edie play with Rex and Grabba for the first time they did standards. I gotta tell you it was an amazing gig, so refreshing and full of interaction. They really used the material too in such a creative way, one of the best gigs I've ever seen. In a way the music was original even though they played standards. Now I believe the only reason these guys could pull it off (sorry) like this was that they have spent sooooo much time exploring their own musical aesthetic. Ken knows fuck all tunes, he hardly plays or listens to jazz at all, Rex and PG of course know 10000's. So whats my point? I have no idea, I'm just raving aimlesly now and thinking I should concentrate on my spelling.
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Post by marksiks on Mar 14, 2006 14:54:49 GMT 10
Speaking of spelling (and sorry to detract from this interesting discussion), do you spell it Geof then? Have I been spelling your name wrong for 5 years?
m6
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Post by geofhughes on Mar 14, 2006 15:23:39 GMT 10
No..Ive been told to f. off a few times lately- so I did.
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Post by mrqwerty on Mar 14, 2006 20:23:53 GMT 10
I would have thought that one of the most interesting things is to see what people do with the 'standards'..Miles reinvented them most nights, especially in the period just before Wayne Shorter joined..(whos compositions then became a pivotal part of Miles repertoire..)....One of the great joys in jazz is seeing and hearing the reinterpretation of an individual or group of somebody else's tune...as much as it is hearing a fabulous original composition...Jazz is such a fortunate art form to be able to do both activities and wobble between both on a regular basis...most Classical music concerts and recordings are so focused just on reinterpretations of the Classical canon that we should be grateful for the astounding elasticity that Jazz
performance and recording gives us...
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Post by ornette on Mar 16, 2006 22:14:03 GMT 10
I did 'Embracable You' on 'This is our music'... and I am black and cool!
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Post by ornette on Mar 16, 2006 22:17:00 GMT 10
Speaking of spelling (and sorry to detract from this interesting discussion), do you spell it Geof then? Have I been spelling your name wrong for 5 years? m6 Man - you are sooooo un - cool. All you talk about is spelling! Listen the the music and not the f's -  |
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Post by curious on Mar 27, 2006 16:36:48 GMT 10
At the risk of reopening a can of worms...seems to me that one should try to only play music that you love playing. Like all of us, I have heard (and played in) bands that don't really have their hearts in playing standards, but do it because they've been told it is 'the right thing to do'. Surprise surprise, it sounds bloody awful, like any music played without commitment. Personally I love playing standards if they are played like MUSIC - with all that optional stuff like dynamics, groove and having an overall conception for the tune. Methinks too many people treat them as just chord sequences, which is a recipe for disaster. What is that old line about Lester Young or Coleman Hawkins stopping playing a tune because he forgot the words? |
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