Post by alimcg on Jun 5, 2006 11:42:31 GMT 10
Ladylex: "Its already incredible!"
If it's already incredible, why should Mark actually do the recording with Vinnie?
Surey you're not one of those people that think that it will automatically be fantastic because Mark will be playing with A GREAT AMERICAN MUSICIAN?
Now for some positive energy for Mark: I hope this recording is as good as what you hope it to be.
Now for some positive energy for Kenny: I support your right (and balls) to pubicly show your reservations about a musician, and to have the guts to do so under your REAL Name. Instead of hiding behind anonymity like so many other snivelly try-hard bloggers.
I actually like Vinnie, but for someone to just gush praise for someone else is not as interesting to me as someone actually taking the time to articulate a contrary position.
We're all too scared to take criticism.......but it's the thing we most need.
« Last Edit: Today at 9:52am by Frank Di Sario » Link to Post - Back to Top Logged
If it's already incredible, why should Mark actually do the recording with Vinnie?
Surey you're not one of those people that think that it will automatically be fantastic because Mark will be playing with A GREAT AMERICAN MUSICIAN?
Now for some positive energy for Mark: I hope this recording is as good as what you hope it to be.
Now for some positive energy for Kenny: I support your right (and balls) to pubicly show your reservations about a musician, and to have the guts to do so under your REAL Name. Instead of hiding behind anonymity like so many other snivelly try-hard bloggers.
I actually like Vinnie, but for someone to just gush praise for someone else is not as interesting to me as someone actually taking the time to articulate a contrary position.
We're all too scared to take criticism.......but it's the thing we most need.
« Last Edit: Today at 9:52am by Frank Di Sario » Link to Post - Back to Top Logged
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Mr Di Sario raises some good points about the nature of this board and some of its pitfalls. Nothing could be more dull than a board of people slapping each other on the back, but it is also true that a board of carping and whining does nothing for us either. Considered and well articulated criticism is a must, but balance is also needed (ie, a little bit of back slapping).
The question of anonymity is also an interesting one. Some people here haven't responded well to criticism in the past, and we've seen people criticised for having contrary positions, or negative comments. Having someone jump down your throat for making such a comment is hardly an environment conducive to continuing constructive criticism, or using one's real name. We also work in a fairly small community (the jazz community, that is), and most of us here have or will play alongside each other at some point, or be reviewed by a member here, or be booked/promoted by a member here, etc etc, and I think a lot of people are led to post with caution under their own name, or to post annonymously. I'd rather have people use pseudonyms than not, if it means that proper debate is actually stimulated. Fair enough, some people use aliases to post crap and malice, but surely the serious members here are smart enough to ignore that stuff.
Now, Kenny was well within his rights to criticise Vinnie Colaiuta, and Mark's chosing of him, but the timing was, well, not so good. If Mark's actually gone to this much trouble in the first place, I'm sure he's put some thought into who to hire (as I said in an earlier post). We may disagree with his reasoning, but it is his choice. Perhaps it would have been better to actually ask for the reasoning behind Mark's choice first. Kenny's comments came across as a bit "shoot first, ask questions later." I'm not here to stick up for Mark (I'm sure he's old enough and ugly enough - or pretty enough if that photo hasn't been photo-shopped!), and I'll admit I found it an interesting choice of drummer too.
The more general question of Australian players recording with "big name" American players is also grey area. Part of me says "hang on, don't we have enough fantastic musicians in this country to play this material." But at the same time should we begrudge someone in our community of potentially higher sales? Is our own musical environment enriched by these cameos, or lessened? Is it improving our international exposure? I'd think the Australians involved would learn heaps from the Yanks, but should we be outsourcing?
Another point here is the development of bands in Australia. We've produced many great bands, but at the same time we see a lot of gigs just thrown together, or "projects" that only ever get one or two airings, and many big names have been brought together for such things, only for the results to be a let down. I'd rather see a great band than a random bunch of great players any day. Just look at how many All-star failures there have been here and overseas. Finally is the question of taxpayer money (grants) being used to pay overseas players. Is this a great way of building our standards and reputations up, or should we be channeling the money towards supporting Australian bands playing more overseas festivals? Should our taxpayer money be lining the pockets of already well-off "stars", or are we actually getting good value for money? I don't know for sure, but it's a topic to be debated...
Mr Di Sario raises some good points about the nature of this board and some of its pitfalls. Nothing could be more dull than a board of people slapping each other on the back, but it is also true that a board of carping and whining does nothing for us either. Considered and well articulated criticism is a must, but balance is also needed (ie, a little bit of back slapping).
The question of anonymity is also an interesting one. Some people here haven't responded well to criticism in the past, and we've seen people criticised for having contrary positions, or negative comments. Having someone jump down your throat for making such a comment is hardly an environment conducive to continuing constructive criticism, or using one's real name. We also work in a fairly small community (the jazz community, that is), and most of us here have or will play alongside each other at some point, or be reviewed by a member here, or be booked/promoted by a member here, etc etc, and I think a lot of people are led to post with caution under their own name, or to post annonymously. I'd rather have people use pseudonyms than not, if it means that proper debate is actually stimulated. Fair enough, some people use aliases to post crap and malice, but surely the serious members here are smart enough to ignore that stuff.
Now, Kenny was well within his rights to criticise Vinnie Colaiuta, and Mark's chosing of him, but the timing was, well, not so good. If Mark's actually gone to this much trouble in the first place, I'm sure he's put some thought into who to hire (as I said in an earlier post). We may disagree with his reasoning, but it is his choice. Perhaps it would have been better to actually ask for the reasoning behind Mark's choice first. Kenny's comments came across as a bit "shoot first, ask questions later." I'm not here to stick up for Mark (I'm sure he's old enough and ugly enough - or pretty enough if that photo hasn't been photo-shopped!), and I'll admit I found it an interesting choice of drummer too.
The more general question of Australian players recording with "big name" American players is also grey area. Part of me says "hang on, don't we have enough fantastic musicians in this country to play this material." But at the same time should we begrudge someone in our community of potentially higher sales? Is our own musical environment enriched by these cameos, or lessened? Is it improving our international exposure? I'd think the Australians involved would learn heaps from the Yanks, but should we be outsourcing?
Another point here is the development of bands in Australia. We've produced many great bands, but at the same time we see a lot of gigs just thrown together, or "projects" that only ever get one or two airings, and many big names have been brought together for such things, only for the results to be a let down. I'd rather see a great band than a random bunch of great players any day. Just look at how many All-star failures there have been here and overseas. Finally is the question of taxpayer money (grants) being used to pay overseas players. Is this a great way of building our standards and reputations up, or should we be channeling the money towards supporting Australian bands playing more overseas festivals? Should our taxpayer money be lining the pockets of already well-off "stars", or are we actually getting good value for money? I don't know for sure, but it's a topic to be debated...
To satisfy ladylex, here is a new thread for this topic. Above are Frank and my comments from the Maria Schneider thread. Sorry about hijacking your post Frank.
