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Post by bodgey on Jul 22, 2006 1:46:07 GMT 10
I started reading this thing as a 20 year old undergrad - at the time, and perhaps for the first few years I though it was great. I didn't post much, and still don't really I guess - and back then that had a lot to do with the somewhat intimidating atmosphere, especially being from Tassie and feeling pretty isolated from the scene as a whole!!
I feel that a lot of the most useful threads were created by posters of old that have sadly vanished, and I also think that a lot of the piss taking that happened back then was a liiiitle bit more light hearted than nowadays.
All of this stupid, childish name calling and 'rating' of musicians has to go.
I'm sorry it's got to this point, Mark.
However, I'm not prepared to stand by and let a few ruin what could possibly be once again a great forum and a vital link in a very scattered community in a large country with not much of a support base.
To paraphrase Mr. PG - 'the process of music making is only complete when it has been received'. To this end, I will be encouraging non musos to check this out and hopefully contribute...I think that our scene in Oz could benefit greatly from more punter input...remember chaps, we actually need and want audiences....from a $$$ point of view AS WELL AS an artistic point of view.
Unfortunately it's taken the impending doom of the forum to make me vocal, but at least it's happened.
So, thoughts on our scene from a punter's point of view?
I've found that, throughout my short time as a player, some of the best critics are my friends that aren't musos. A lot of them have listened to bucket loads of music of varying styles, and know what they like and don't like. It's some of the best criticism becuase I know if they have liked the gig, the music has acutally ENGAGED them somehow. That means a hell of a lot to me.
We are all punters as well as musos. Love to hear some thoughts!
cheers for now
mb
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Post by punter on Jul 22, 2006 12:36:44 GMT 10
I agree bodgey, and I don't think you should dismantle the forum Mark. It belongs to everyone now for better or for worse, and it is kind of fascinating, though admitedly sometimes perversely so. The forum has been through a particularly nasty phase recently but I think it'll 'grow' out of it. Perhaps you should consider taking yourself out of the picture for a while Mark, and appoint another moderator. It would be interesting to see how someone else responded to the various twists and turns the 'discussions' take. Totally understand why you would be feeling a bit over it but I think it would be really negative to pull the plug. And that's not to say you haven't done a good job; it was an excellent idea in the first place to set this up and you have contributed to some really interesting dialogues. Any thoughts???
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Post by bodgey on Jul 27, 2006 9:50:47 GMT 10
Ok. Punter, yes i agree to a certain extent, but my point was to stimulate a little discussion in the direction of music.
So, folks, I'd like to hear some opinions and thoughts about how jazz musos in this country relate to their audiences.
I've been a member of a quintet based in melbourne (with a rouge saxophonist from Canberra...don't hold it against him. since there's a bit of a kerfuff about anonymity regarding pseudonyms currently, my name is Matt Boden for those that haven't figured it out/don't know me) ...sorry, off track.
ANYway, this quintet has done quite a few gigs, and a bit of touring in TAS, VIC and NSW. For me, some of the best gigs have been in smaller communities (canberra, tilba tilba and orange spring to mind) where the audience was not neccesarily 'into' jazz, or even had much exposure to it - maybe it had something to do with the lack of preconceptions involved (bebop? what's that? I can't even begin to play the stuff anyway). Anyway, I think it's quite refreshing, and as stated in my last post, my most valued musical yard sticks are friends and family (thanks, Mum) that know bugger all about the technical side of things, but know what they like, but can still express WHY they like it.
On the other side of the coin, it's always good to get shredded by your peers and to be on the receiving end of some passionate advice (for want of a better description....gimme a break - it's 2am where i am now).
So...what do you folks think about the completion of the creative process, i.e. the audience's reaction? Do you care? Do you laugh in the face of the audience and play for yourself? Do you care too much and pander always to the crowd?
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Post by mim on Jul 27, 2006 21:14:20 GMT 10
I care too much. But I think that will change when I start performing my own stuff. I think you're right about the lack of preconceptions thing, but in this case I'm talking about people with or without knowledge of jazz. If you play your own stuff there are fewer preconceptions in general than if you're playing standards. I would still definitely appreciate feedback from any listeners, but I would be less afraid of offending them by "playing it wrong".
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Post by bodgey on Jul 27, 2006 23:52:54 GMT 10
Hey mim, I think there's always more baggage with standards than with original stuff. Especially being a piano player, in any kind of standards setting I end up getting compared with Bill, Keith, Red blah blah which is endlessly infuriating ... I'm not trying to emulate these players (although I'm sure I have elements of them in my playing...it's a bit hard to avoid), I'm still trying to come up with something fresh, even if it is on tunes that have been in the lexicon for a long time. Playing in an ensemble with everyone contributing tunes to the repetoire is optimum for me (Leigh Barker Quintet), as the audience gets to hear everyone's compositional as well as their improvisational voice (there's another thread...what's the difference if any?). Playing originals can be a double edged sword - it's easy to be too precious about your tunes, but it's easier to play with a certain stronger conviction because the basic framework and concept has come from your own pen. So, after all that what I'm trying to say is I feel more at ease with originals (maybe something to do with actually trying to create something totally new...'innovation is the tradition!!' quote care of THAT book  )...I think it's easier to say something more directly on original tunes...I think it's easier to connect with the audience. Standards are great - I still get a lot of pleasure playing them, but I think as soon as an audience member thinks 'ahhhh yes, I know this, it's autumn leaves' something is lost. I guess there's more of that wonderful sense of discovery as the audience delves into something new and the band gets down to it with something close to them. Gee, that was a bit wanky sounding, but you get my drift. |
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Post by ladylex on Jul 28, 2006 12:23:39 GMT 10
not at all wanky!  I totally see where youre at: and there is plenty of pleasure in both I guess. Jazz Nazis love hearing their standards, because they know the construct inside and out, and can then tear the performers to pieces. ;D I personally love standards because I know what the performer is doing to play outside the melody. But I also love originals - how can we not? As you pointed out Mr Bodge, that sense of something new - your words were sense of discovery.. veree nice - and unexplored is just so exciting. Youre ears are pricking up and your inner voice is saying "Hang on- whats this?". LOL. Its a great feeling for sure. I just love damn good music.. whatever whichever Mim: this is where my love for musos come into play: I always feel privileged to be listening to a great musician/performer. And while its nice for the performer to pander to the punters, Id much rather hear what you have to and want to say in your performance. If it was Jingle Bells.. doesnt matter. Its a privilege to beholden to great talent IMO - so if you love it, if you think the music is flowing thru you.. play it for me |
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Post by mrqwerty on Jul 28, 2006 16:09:23 GMT 10
.....Please no more "LOL"s....
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Post by alimcg on Jul 28, 2006 17:50:48 GMT 10
Awww, come on mrqwerty, where's the love?
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Post by mim on Jul 28, 2006 17:54:58 GMT 10
Give her a break, she limited it to one. Usually it's about 3 to a post I'd reckon.  Interestingly enough, I read a review in which it was said that the musician alienated the audience because their music was too personal. I wonder whether this reviewer had intimacy issues. |
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Post by bodgey on Jul 29, 2006 6:42:41 GMT 10
Audience alienation because because the music was too personal?
Hmmmm.
Intimacy issues - i like that! bloody funny.
I can imagine tho, that that (alienation, not intimacy issues) can be easliy be caused by good old 'head up own arse' syndrome which can happen a lot in improvised music...maybe saying the music was 'too personal''is like saying 'hitler wasn't a perticulary affable chap'.
Another angle on this rant....for God's sake, who took the FUN out of jazz these days?!?! It's all so falarkin serious all the time...I know I enjoy myself the most (playing or audiencing)when the band is getting down into it, throwing stuff around and grinning at the results, if not laughing and actually physically expressing something. I think the audience can relate a bit better too, especially if they're new to the music.
Gig highlights with high jinks: Hippo with LBQ, playing to a half full club, a few beers under the belt, getting pissed off having to play on a keyboard....suddenly the band fires up, everyone's on song....grins all around and some great music making.
Fed Square auditorium/cafe bit thing with cap'n and johnny mastropoulos, hacking around on accordion...just having a damn good time. That's why i got into jazz in the first place. It made me grin. A lot.
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Post by mim on Jul 29, 2006 14:47:30 GMT 10
Gooood point! Only wedding gig I've had actual fun at, someone requested Moondance, which I'm not ashamed to say, I didn't know the lyrics to. But our wonderful sax player, Tommy Pulford, knew every lyric, sang the head in and out and handed me the mike so he could fit in a sax solo in between. Crowd loved it, I was totally out-shone, not that I minded one bit. Then he went on to play the mexican hat dance and the sailors horn pipe for the drunk guests to jig to. Actually put us in a good mood, and the music was better for it.
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Post by captain on Jul 29, 2006 17:57:37 GMT 10
Playing on Bruny Island so high on cookies that we can't finish a song because we're laughing too hard. I won't name names...
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Post by bodgey on Jul 30, 2006 22:27:48 GMT 10
Nice one mim! Speaking of the Mexican Bloody Hat Dance...some other forum member will remember a certain gig for a certain enormous Melbourne law firm where we were asked to play that song not once, not twice, not thrice but four times. Ridiculous.
Cap'n.....no need for names! That's an easy one.
Anyone else? Jazz is fun, kids!
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Post by mim on Jul 31, 2006 0:03:02 GMT 10
My dear friend Leo Auri, a wonderful and also delightfully quirky pianist, would have a laugh at the end of many a tune. Whatever altered note or colour tone on which I might choose to end a tune, he took pleasure in making it the tonic. Hilarious only to the geekiest of geeky jazz nerd I dare say. (Or maybe I should just take a hint and end on the tonic occasionally ) |
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Post by ladylex on Aug 2, 2006 13:18:49 GMT 10
But see.. thats the special and secret language of Music! We can all laugh at stuff like that cos no one else (normal punters that is) knows *heehee. I love it.
And Mim: my respsect levels for you have increased.. anyone who doesnt know the words to MoonDance deserves a bloody medal LOLs... I unfortunately know the lyrics.. and dammit.. the entire tune upside down and back to front. ew
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)...I think it's easier to say something more directly on original tunes...I think it's easier to connect with the audience. Standards are great - I still get a lot of pleasure playing them, but I think as soon as an audience member thinks 'ahhhh yes, I know this, it's autumn leaves' something is lost. I guess there's more of that wonderful sense of discovery as the audience delves into something new and the band gets down to it with something close to them. Gee, that was a bit wanky sounding, but you get my drift.
