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Post by ironguts on Feb 4, 2007 16:13:53 GMT 10
certainly not a quiet place, couple of people hanging around. severe lack of toilet paper though, even less after my visit.
The writing/reviews in the papers there is even more amusing than the spur for this thread.
I tell you, we could learn a thing or million about dedication to practice off the Indian musos, they work real hard no matter how good they get, inspirational,,,,,meanwhile, back to the cricket!
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Post by mim on Feb 4, 2007 20:25:43 GMT 10
Yes its badly written.Yes its poorly researched. Yes its yet another example of someone given major press space to wax lyrical about something that they are not expert in. Yes its a good plug for the Burkster who is realistic enough to know the importance of pumping up ones profile in this arid musical enironment. And no - its not cool because there are a great many more deserving projects,dedicated artists and hard working groups out there that could do with some press like this....also - this is shoddy work for an academic. Hear, hear, gator. I wish I could write. But then, there probably wouldn't be anywhere to publish it... |
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Post by timothystevens on Feb 4, 2007 20:29:29 GMT 10
You could try The Age. It seems they take almost anything.
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Post by freddy on Feb 7, 2007 13:06:45 GMT 10
a "bad' article on jazz is surely better than no article on jazz. Well, I'm not sure about that. While jazz in this country suffers badly from invisibility in the media bad articles do plenty of damage and I'd rather not have them. The real question is 'why this piece by this particular writer'. The stuff about the nature of improvisation in rock and jazz is simply wrong as well as awkwardly written. The discussion of Rob Burke and friends is okay, impressionistic writing which doesn't give any great insights but won't do any harm. Up here in Sydney there were are couple of writers who did/do great damage to the music by consistently ignoring or putting down the best creative musicians. One of them has got a another life in the ABC's Limelight as second reviewer to Shand. As jazz writer at The Australian he took every chance to extoll the virtues of Morrison, the mainstream scene and plug the warbling of ghastly Janet Seidel as something extraordinary. The contemporary scene was either ignored or dismissed. He did a lot of damage in my view. The reason much of the jazz writing in this country is poor is that there are so few opportunities for a jazz writer to write and be decently paid for it. Many editors take the easy way out when it comes to jazz and appoint anybody, whether they have an adequate knowledge of jazz or not. The Age at least appears to be prepared to give space for features on jazz whereas its sister paper in Sydney usually doesn't despite having two of the best jazz writers (JShand and JClare) as contributers. Some years ago when the controversy over the Ken Burns doco was raging the SMH ran a dfeature of at least 1500 words on it. Fortunately it wasn't taken from the wires but it wasn't commissioned from Shand or Clare either but from Andrew Ford, classical composer and presenter on ABC who knows something about jazz but only a fraction of what Shand or Clare know. His piece contained a blunder which I hope was pointed out. I think the editor thought that Ford's status as presenter of the Music Show which does occasionally feature jazz, and as a composer, meant he was qualified to write about controversies within an inferior artform like jazz. And that's why someone like Andrys Onsman was given this gig. He's an academic and so impresses the editor with his credentials even if they are in a field unrelated to music. You wouldn't find such an article commisioned about classical music from a non-specialist, that's for sure. |
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Post by Kenny on Feb 7, 2007 13:26:53 GMT 10
Janet Seidel ghastly? I like her a lot - AND a lot of the "contemporary" players you refer to.
There's a lot of truth in what you say, but ... you seem to misunderstand how newspapers, in this regard, mostly work. And believe me, I'm not defending them at all - as a long-time employee I doubt I could get any more cynical or disgusted than I am at present.
It works like this: Shand, Clare, Nicholas and McBeath are EXCEPTIONS - freelance writers who are not employed as full-time journalists by the rags for which they write.
Over the years, it has been much more common for newspaper jazz writers to be drawn from within staff ranks, so the jazz coverage is done by somebody whose primary role at the paper may be sports, finance, sub-editorial, whatever.
Among those for whom this applies I would include myself, Kevin Jones (formerly of the Oz and about whom I presume you're referring), Shane Nichols (FinReview), Leon Gettler (Age), Ken Williams (Age) ... and I'm sure are plenty more around the country and the world.
I don't mean to defend this tradition at all.
In many ways it is ridiculous and insulting and serves only to illustrate that jazz is thought of even more lowly than you suggest.
But it also goes to explain why you may get, as with Kevin, lopsided coverage.
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gator
Full Member
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Post by gator on Feb 7, 2007 14:04:56 GMT 10
[/quote]And that's why someone like Andrys Onsman was given this gig. He's an academic and so impresses the editor with his credentials even if they are in a field unrelated to music. You wouldn't find such an article commisioned about classical music from a non-specialist, that's for sure.[/quote]
And perhaps the editor should have read some of the guys work first -isnt that part of an editors job?
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Post by vickibonet on Feb 7, 2007 15:45:50 GMT 10
Yes its badly written.Yes its poorly researched. Yes its yet another example of someone given major press space to wax lyrical about something that they are not expert in. Yes its a good plug for the Burkster who is realistic enough to know the importance of pumping up ones profile in this arid musical enironment. And no - its not cool because there are a great many more deserving projects,dedicated artists and hard working groups out there that could do with some press like this....also - this is shoddy work for an academic. Hear, hear, gator. I wish I could write. But then, there probably wouldn't be anywhere to publish it... Mim, the net has plenty of room for writers of all standards :-) As for the Age I still think some people are missing the point i.e. newspaper sales are vastly shrinking as the world moves closer to a largely electronic based media. You can't fight the rapid development and adoption of new technology, so accept and embrace it instead, perhaps. |
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Post by andrewh on Feb 7, 2007 17:18:50 GMT 10
As for the Age I still think some people are missing the point i.e. newspaper sales are vastly shrinking as the world moves closer to a largely electronic based media. You can't fight the rapid development and adoption of new technology, so accept and embrace it instead, perhaps. Is that really the point of this thread? Then I definitely missed it. |
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Post by freddy on Feb 7, 2007 23:45:08 GMT 10
"Janet Seidel ghastly? I like her a lot - AND a lot of the "contemporary" players you refer to.
There's a lot of truth in what you say, but ... you seem to misunderstand how newspapers, in this regard, mostly work. And believe me, I'm not defending them at all - as a long-time employee I doubt I could get any more cynical or disgusted than I am at present.
It works like this: Shand, Clare, Nicholas and McBeath are EXCEPTIONS - freelance writers who are not employed as full-time journalists by the rags for which they write.
Over the years, it has been much more common for newspaper jazz writers to be drawn from within staff ranks, so the jazz coverage is done by somebody whose primary role at the paper may be sports, finance, sub-editorial, whatever.
Among those for whom this applies I would include myself, Kevin Jones (formerly of the Oz and about whom I presume you're referring), Shane Nichols (FinReview), Leon Gettler (Age), Ken Williams (Age) ... and I'm sure are plenty more around the country and the world.
I don't mean to defend this tradition at all."
Seidel sings in tune but she's just so twee and smug in both her choice of material and delivery that it makes me want to throw up.
Let's put that to one side. On the matter of how jazz writers are chosen, that is from among in-house staffers, this is much more true of News Ltd than of Fairfax. I did some research on this and found out that in Sydney none of the jazz critics/writers for the Sydney Morning Herald going back to the first critic Eric Myers were on staff and the same applies to The Age where Adrian and Jessica were never on staff although Leon Gettler was. I think most arts reviewers for the SMH are freelancers whereas more, though not all, at News are staffers.
We agree on the main points though that arts editors see covering jazz as a favour rather than as an obligation to the artists and audience.
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Post by vickibonet on Feb 8, 2007 2:24:59 GMT 10
As for the Age I still think some people are missing the point i.e. newspaper sales are vastly shrinking as the world moves closer to a largely electronic based media. You can't fight the rapid development and adoption of new technology, so accept and embrace it instead, perhaps. Is that really the point of this thread? Then I definitely missed it. It might help you to understand if you read the complete thread Andrew. |
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Post by Kenny on Feb 8, 2007 8:13:56 GMT 10
I did some research on this and found out that in Sydney none of the jazz critics/writers for the Sydney Morning Herald going back to the first critic Eric Myers were on staff ... Hmmmm ... perhaps the News Ltd/in-house approach has merit after all. |
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Post by aj on Feb 8, 2007 13:54:32 GMT 10
I did some research on this and found out that in Sydney none of the jazz critics/writers for the Sydney Morning Herald going back to the first critic Eric Myers were on staff ... Hmmmm ... perhaps the News Ltd/in-house approach has merit after all. OK, let's see some more jazz reviews in the Sunday Herald Sun then !  |
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Post by Kenny on Feb 8, 2007 14:04:18 GMT 10
I'm listening to a lot of jazz at the moment. But it's just like the blues and country I'm also digging. Overwhelmingly recorded pre-WWII. Besides which ... the SHS prefers jazz arists it covers to be named Kylie, Delta, Britney, Posh, Naomi, Our Nic, Lara and so on.
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Post by aj on Feb 8, 2007 14:28:24 GMT 10
& to have a new release on Verve ?
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Post by Kenny on Feb 8, 2007 14:33:25 GMT 10
& to have a new release on Verve ? Ahhh - now you've got it. It's all over. Last week I gots a package from Blue Note - no doubt the same one you received - and kept only one for my own listening/writing/radioing (Tolliver), giving the rest out around the staff. And BN what's left of the good guys! Beause of my ghostly listening, most of what I have reviewed in the past year or so has been courtesy of Mr VISA. |
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