Is Jazz Dead? (Or Has It Moved to a New Address)

[Jim Budd]

Here is a must read review by David Yaffe, of Stuart Nicholson's latest book titled, "Is Jazz Dead?"
A very interesting outlook on the global positioning of jazz from the neoconservative, thru to the avante-guarde.
www.thenation.com/doc/20051205/yaffe
please post back your thoughts!

[Kenny]

After ...

*Interviewing Nicholson on my show, during which he non-stop pitched up a ludicrous, riotously anti-American, jazz-is-dead-in-the-US blitz, all the while conveniently ignoring widespread grass-roots, local-scene, small-label activity AND continually describing Mike Brecker as THE greatest living US musician (fine player, but sheesh ....); and ...

*Having read several reviews/discussions about this book; ...

... I'm inclined to look elsewhere for reading matter.

I suspect there's some merit in his thesis, but it seems to have been blurred by the sheer tabloid hack tactic - take it from one who knows, ha ha - of coming up with a beaut theory and then feverishly looking around for stuff to back it up and discarding the rest.

And I don't think it's cool that he saw Australia and its music as in some way propping up his agenda.

I have a fundamental opposition to what seems to be a theory based on geography.

If the music sucks in one place - unlike Nicholson - I'm not necessarily going to look on the other side of the world. Instead of Carnegie Hall, I'd try some dive on the other side of Manhattan. Or instead of Bubble Boy at Hamer Hall, I'd head for a bar in Fitzroy.

His premise seems devoid of ambiguities and nuances, all the while talking up one side and trashing the other. I don't think it's so black and white, especially with the internet and all.

[aj]

I've seen at least some of the net discussion that Kenny refers to.............at least some of it falls into the kneejerk reaction category, ie 'how dare this limey tell us our jazz is no good, well let's fix him'. Interestingly, the U.S. pianist George Colligan led the charge on one thread I read, then revised his position somewhat after he began reading the book.

I've discussed the book with the author (when he was in the process), and got the impression he was arguing : Look, the USA is no longer the pre-eminent centre of jazz activity in the world, it's become terribly conservative, but there's plenty of creative and original jazz being played in Europe and elsewhere.

I'll read the book before I pass judgement on it............I mean, if he takes an extremist position and says there's NOTHING worthwhile coming out of the States, I'm sure we can all find examples to prove him wrong. And while we can all disagree with some of the artists he champions as proving the vitality of the European scene (eg, I've found some of Bugge Wesseltoft's music enjoyable, but not what I'd call original), there ARE plenty of others who can support a contention that there is a lot of fresh music coming out of Europe, and in fact has been for quite some time.

Given that you've long been trying to get foreign fans to wake up to Australian jazz artists Kenny, I'm surprised you take exception to Stuart N doing likewise............but again, I'll wait til I've actually read the book before being too definitive about how he argues his case.

[isaacs]

I met Bugge Wesseltoft in Latvia this year. We were actually double-billed for a concert with symphony orchestra and we both shared the same bass player, Swedish bassist Lars Danielson. Both very talented players indeed and lovely guys. It seems to be that the most sensible approach to such debates is a nuanced position. Although there is a some merit in taking an extremist non-nuanced position as a polemic against another extremist position. In a way the latter makes for the most lively and enjoyable discourse and a thinking person can reconcile the bits of each position that have veracity and end up with a nuanced position anyway. It seems to me that America is still pre-eminent in CERTAIN TYPES of jazz (these perhaps could best be described as "American jazz") and that Europe is pre-eminent in... well, European jazz!

[Kenny]

aj said:

Given that you've long been trying to get foreign fans to wake up to Australian jazz artists Kenny, I'm surprised you take exception to Stuart N doing likewise.

Fair comment AJ. If Nichsolson is mostly interested is spreading the word on unsung music, then I share his passion.

But my impression is that there's other agendas with him. Even the book's title tells me that.

My wariness is mostly fuelled by my interview with him on PBS, at which you were present. My recall of that is that Nicholson's approach was a lot closer to " there's NOTHING worthwhile coming out of the States" (Michael Brecker aside) than to "there is a lot of fresh music coming out of Europe".

I hope my support for Australian music on the internet is more along the lines of wanting our stuff to be given equal billing. Nicholson's approach seems to very much either/or, a journalistic ploy for which he was known long before this book came along.

Again, my recall of the interview is that Nicholson was not interested, indeed possibly deliberately ignored, indie label/grass roots activity in the US. His approach DOES have logic if dressed up solely in the context of Wynton and the major labels.

But with the interent, widespread touring and studying, affordable airfares and so on, I'm all for nuance.

Mark's right - sometimes it's fun to take "extremist non-nuanced position as a polemic against another extremist position", even at the risk of - ahem - generating "the nasty whiff of nationalism".

But, from what I've read so far (and now I AM interested in reading the book), Nichsolson's exclusionary argument comes across as rather divisive.

It may be the Dead Head in me, but for me music is magic is universal is everywhere and nowhere and belongs to everyone.

I plain don't like any argument that requires taking sides, which is mainly why I don't have any time for Wynton-the-jazz-spokesman, either.

[aj]

oh, so now you're taking sides against Wynton, eh ?

[Kenny]

aj said:

oh, so now you're taking sides against Wynton, eh ?

No comment!

[aj]

yes, I agree with what you're saying..............as I said, I'll read the book, to see how black & white Stuart's argument is........maybe he tends to take an extremist stance to get a response, but I'm hoping there's a little nuance in there.

[yep]

Jazz is very much alive in one player at the moment
we all Know who TR

[vickihb2]

Kenny Weir:

Mark's right - sometimes it's fun to take "extremist non-nuanced position as a polemic against another extremist position", even at the risk of - ahem - generating "the nasty whiff of nationalism".

When it comes to supporting Australian music abroad, there is no such THING as a nasty whiff of nationalism, Kenny! For so long Australians have and continue to have such a huge flipping chip on our shoulders about O/seas equals better. You are doing a good thing in helping to share great art with the rest of the world and working towards redressing the balance.

My observation is that a lot of Oz Jazz soldiers still have that chip the size of Uluru, and that is, I believe, what holds Australian music back in Australia, let alone the rest of the world. That and bad fashion.

[Kenny]

vickihb2 said:

When it comes to supporting Australian music abroad, there is no such THING as a nasty whiff of nationalism, Kenny!

Vicki, I agree with you. I was merely referring to a rather snooty post on the Tim Stevens/Sam Keevers/Jamie Oehlers thread.

[aj]

Just finished reading nicholson's book..............I must say, I find yaffe's review pretty dumb, it's basically 'I don't like Tord Gustavsen, so we can ignore anything Nicholson has to say'.

I went back to allaboutjazz.com where there is an extensive thread about Nicholson's book ; it's filled with people who haven't read the book, complaining about what they think it says, many of them going on to make other comments (eg about how tough it is to make a living playing jazz in the states, how jazz is better funded in Europe, etc) that are in accord with the book. I notice that George Colligan, who started the thread, posted after reading a few chapters to say that he may owe Nicholson an apology, and he would say more after reading the rest of the book.......he hasn't got around to it yet.


I do think Nicholson overstates his case in some areas, but he doesn't actually say there is nothing fresh coming out of the states, just that it's struggling to be heard. And I don't think you have to like every last European band he mentions to acknowledge that there is a lot of good jazz coming out of Europe that doesn't adhere rigidly to the US model.

[geofhughes]

Just read AJ's v.cool article in the Age. For anyone who has been to NY in the last few years, the gulf between whats happenning "uptown" and "downtown" - a division exacerpated by the JALC and others ....is quite palpable. The litmus test for me is how the music travels - the musicians from the downtown scene and who teach at the SIM are globally influenced and crop up all over the world, performing with each other and local musicians - they may be struggling ,but their musical influence is spreading ,unlike the more politically motivated uptown crew who seem to be imploding culturally.Having said that - it never pays to ignore great musicians in NY no matter what side of the "fence" you perceive them to be on. I think the spirit of resistance to the norm that is recognized as "downtown" in NY ,if not the music itself ,has had some major influence on many Australian and European musicians. But I might venture to say that perhaps its going the other way now too particularly as there seems to be a great many European musicians active in NY right now.....

[Kenny]

Hey, aj - back in the pages of The Age, eh mate? Geez, that mortgage'll be history in no time! ;D

[aj]

It's like Michael Corleone said Kenny : Just when I think I'm free, they drag me back in.