First-name terms

[utensils]

Jun 29, 2009 9:45:41 GMT 10 aj said:

Dick Hyman probably trumps Beaver Harris.

See this is what this whole thread has been about. If you hadn't included the surname "Harris", people might quite reasonably have assumed you were referring to Beaver Felton, the muscle-bound, armband-wearing host of the Superchops series of electric bass instructional videos.

[punter]

Jun 28, 2009 6:18:22 GMT 10 isaacs said:

Re Wynton and PR.

If you stumble on half a glass of water in the desert, you call it a godsend. Depending on your patience you might acknowledge comments that the tumbler is not in the hippest style, that the glass is half empty, that it would be more beneficial with mineral salts added and that it may be dangerous. Or given your thirst you might find such carping absolutely extraordinary.

I reckon jazz music is in great shape... no desert, no half full glass, no thirst. Just depends on where you think the music is going. We have an embarrassment of musical riches that derive from jazz. Sure much of this music doesn't sound like jazz did in the 50s but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not jazz (in my opinion anyway). Some Australian examples include Simon Barker's Korean project, Hannaford/Rogers/Edie/Tinkler's integration of modernist language and Australian larrikinism (maybe that's not a good description), Band of Five Names, Pateras/Baxter/Brown, Clocked Out Duo, Julien Wilson Trio... I could go on. All these groups are examples of artists who integrate personal experience and cultural context and express them in improvised music... jazz musicians.

[isaacs]

You misunderstand me. I made no comment negating the high quality and volume of jazz music available.

I implied that jazz had a PR problem, it's terribly arid for jazz out there in terms of profile in the big picture. That was what I meant by "desert".

I suggested that the PR efforts of Wynton Marsalis were a glass half full, in response to criticisms of him and those same PR efforts.

Then I said a glass half full in the desert is a godsend. And that I found it self-defeating that others would carp, though of course they have every right to.

Follow my reasoning and you'll see I wasn't talking about the music per se at all.

[captain]

But what about Carl Risely? ;D

[punter]

Jun 29, 2009 11:26:46 GMT 10 isaacs said:

You misunderstand me. I made no comment negating the high quality and volume of jazz music available.

I implied that jazz had a PR problem, it's terribly arid for jazz out there in terms of profile in the big picture. That was what I meant by "desert".

I suggested that the PR efforts of Wynton Marsalis were a glass half full, in response to criticisms of him and those same PR efforts.

Then I said a glass half full in the desert is a godsend. And that I found it self-defeating that others would carp, though of course they have every right to.

Follow my reasoning and you'll see I wasn't talking about the music per se at all.

yeah fair point...

[punter]

Jun 29, 2009 11:38:37 GMT 10 captain said:

But what about Carl Risely? ;D

Fuck how could i have forgotten... I'm sorry Carl

[trumpetguy]

Jun 29, 2009 10:11:01 GMT 10 lloydswanton said:

Jun 29, 2009 9:26:07 GMT 10 trumpetguy said:

Scoopy?
Fat Head?
Sun Ra?
Baby? (Dodds)
Slam?
Slim?
Dick Hyman?
Scoops?
Albare?
Ironguts?

Zutty?
Mezz?

BIG BAND NAMES

DEWEY NEEDHAM & HIS JAZZ ORCH.

TRUMPETS
Al Tissimo (lead trumpet), Pops de Vane (old time 1st trumpet), Plenty Haitönen (1st trumpet Finland) Willy Makit or Kenny Makit (1st trumpet), Buster Bloodvessel (1st trumpet), Felix Cited, Howie Spitz, Ames Toulouse, Chops O'Gonagen (or Lips O' Gonagen), Ed Down, Rusty Piston, Buster Hinote, Diz Astor, Noah Count

TROMBONES
Hy Register,Slip Shod,Willie Show, Bjent Slide, Adolf Tune, Mosley Late, Scott Noslide (on valve trombone), Terry Billnoise, Moe Zaic, Justin Tune, Lew Slips (bass trombone), Keith Myath, (toothless bass trombone)

SAXOPHONES
Kenny Read - lead alto, Izzy Sharp - lead alto, Mosley Flat - 2nd alto, Les Tone - 2nd alto, Manny Notes - 1st tenor, Mai-Lik - Chinese 1st tenor, Reed Mylips - 1st tenor, Otto Tune - 2nd tenor, Ron Key - 2nd tenor, Lee King - 2nd tenor, Olaf Awhiskey - Swedish tenor, Mustafa Fix - Arabic tenor, Selmer Horn - broke tenor player, Seymour Butts - baritone, Rusty Keys - baritone, Arthur Chorus - baritone, Ima Growler - baritone

FLUTE
Bret Support - Will Trill - Mosley Sharpe - Lotta Air - Vera Piercing (piccolo)

RHYTHM SECTION

PIANO
R. Peggio - Manny Wong Kordz - Phil Allgaps - Hugo Tommy Head (piano bar) - Sven Lightsarlo (Swedish piano bar) - Thelonious Gallintown (gay pianist)

ORGAN
Page Turner

BASS
Ron Lines - Pete Ziccato (Italian) - Toulouse De Beat (French) - Buster Gutt - Warren Fretts - Uguludunga (African)

GUITAR
Ron Kords - Rex Yurears (rock guitarist) - Ian Gee & Rudy Mentry (folk guitarists) - Kent Reed - Segovia Carpet (classical guitarist) - Django Bells - Rock Enrol - Sten Gunn (Swedish rock guitarist)

DRUMS
Phil Dinn - Don Swing - No-Tai-Ming (Vietnamese) - Owen Transport (Welsh) - Will Travel - Arturo Verciz (South American) - Knut Loose (Danish) - Ching Boom (Chinese) - I.Q. Lowe

VIBES
Hal Mallet

BANJO
Ricky Tick

HARP
Anne Dante

HARPSICHORD
Arron Variation

PERCUSSION
Perry Diddle - Jim Nasium - Tim Bales

STRING SECTION
Adolf Fiddler - Phil Harmonic (1st Violin) - Squeekin Myassoff, Fay Kerr (2nd violin) - Vi Baratto - Vera Sharp (violas) - Beau Braker, Donna Octif (Cello)

FRENCH HORN
Belle Tone

TUBA
Sue Saphone

DANCERS
Dinah Sore - Betty Whont - Sonia Papermoon - Sharon Sharalijk - Lois D. Nominator - Barbara Seville - Tamara Nevercomes - Tamara Zanutha Day - Anne Fetamin - Anna Rexia

CHOREOGRAPHY
Amanda B. Reckonwith - Ben Dover (gay)

DANCE TEAMS
Ko & Nova Caine - Sam & Janet Evening

FEMALE SINGERS
Norma Stitts (or E. Norma Stitts) - Eileen Back - Eileen Dover - Annie Keewildoo - Sheila Blige (or Sheila O'Blige) - Marsha Dymes - Lotta Head - Terri Belle (French) - Kay Sirah-Sirah (Anglo/Egyptian) Deborah C. Ewe (singer with adenoid problem) - Mozarella Fitzgerald (Italian jazz singer)

FEMALE BLUES SINGERS
Bertha De Blues - Elefants Gerald

FEMALE DUO
Annie Tune 'n' Annie Key

MALE SINGERS
Amos B.Haven - Denny Nodsout - Lee Thargic - Amos Havacik Daly (Jewish,Slovak,Irishman) - Chester Gigolo - Payne N. Diaz - Kanta Singh (Indian) - Barry Tone

COUNTRY & WESTERN SINGERS
Lars Roundup (Swedish) - Abner Selfabal

BACKING VOCALS
Rachel Prejudice - Freda Slaves - Sybil Rights (South African trio) - Anita Leigh - Eustace Crew

SINGING COACH
Hal E. Tosis

ARRANGER
Walt Smedley

BAND LEADERS / CONDUCTORS
Dewey Needham - Ron Tempo - Ivor Wiggon - Walter Mess - Charles Louis D'Inse (French) - Voorhees A. Jollygoodfellow - Owen De Guys (and his wife Leigh De Guys) - Yuron Yurown (Israeli) - Seldon Wright - Kent Count - Ofun Wong (Chinese) - Kick der Raas (Dutch) - Count Immov - Izzy Goudinov - Phil Harmonic (classical) - Dick Dolittle

MASTER OF CEREMONIES
Darryl B. Moreticome

BAND COMEDIAN
Lucius N. Savuma

SOUND CREW
Lew Swires - Mike Rafone - Mustafa Djoint - Mike Fawlty - Elco Short - Constance Humm

LIGHTING
Justin Case - Flip M. Awn - Jerry Rigg

ELECTRICIAN
Les Voltage

CAMERA
Will Shutter

BAND BOY
Noah I. Cue

SECURITY
B. A. Dick - Rick O'Shae

LIBRARIAN
Miss Inga Page

COPYIST
L. Egible

ROADIES
Oliver Beer (English) - Mannheim Stoned (German) - Manuel Lehba (Spanish) - Ram Shackle (Indian), Fu Kiu (Chinese) - Wang Kerr - Tucker Inn

STAGE MANAGER
Lew Scannon

BUS DRIVER
Ben Z. Dreen - Oliver de Rode - Peekup Andropv

TOUR COORDINATORS
Alice Verboten (German - discipline) - Hertz Von Rental - Ate De Jong (Dutch - child care) Walter Walcarpitz (accomodation)

UNION REPRESENTATIVE
Morey Ziduals - Scott Free - Lou Syfer

PATRONS (OR SPONSORS)
Baron Wasteland - Lord Elpuss - Count D’Meaunay

MANAGEMENT CONSULTANT
Bacchus Stabber

BOOKING AGENTS
Al Fresco (Outdoor Festivals) - Gig Booker - Willy Paye - Rip Orff

MANAGERS
Robin Bastard - Anthony Bluitt - Lou Debred

PUBLICITY & PR
Igg Norriss - Ed Vertise - Mai Ling (China)

FAN CLUB PRESIDENT
Doug de Ban

TALENT SCOUT
Hiram Cheap

BAND LAWYERS
Dewey, Cheatham, & Howe

WARDROBE
Zip Herrup - I. B. Sewinn

CATERERS
Andy Pasta - Harry Vederci - Laika McAroni - Sal Monella - Art Burne - Mo Zarella - Al Dente

ACCOUNTANT
Iris Audit

BAND CHAPLAIN
Theo Log (Dutch) - C. de Light - Hal L. Ujah

[captain]

He's definitely a pr godsend for Jazz.

[isaacs]

Thank you Captain my captain. I'm not used to people agreeing with my ideas!

[captain]

Sorry I was being dumb and sarcastic about Carl Riseley, who has recorded a 'Jazz album' (apparently) and is quite popular. Therefore good for Jazz if I was to be sarcastic about your argument.

I don't give a fuck about Wynton's politics anymore, 5 years ago I was obsessed with his music and consequently would spout alot of his ideology too (which I think is what all 21 year olds do, is have alot of opinions that mean shit)

Now its not particularly in high rotation but most of it is still really beautiful to me, I gain alot of inspiration from it but hopefully I have some opinions of my own these days. His last few records have been fairly hit and miss I think, but the latest (if you can stand the poetry) is pretty badarse.

but yeah in general I agree with you, however in the grand scheme of things I don't think anything the man says will make people buy more or less Jazz albums. If you go to itunes you can see the top Jazz downloads are still Kind of Blue, Norah Jones and some Louis Armstrong. Nothing changes.

[vickibonet]

Jun 29, 2009 15:59:05 GMT 10 captain said:

Sorry I was being dumb and sarcastic about Carl Riseley, who has recorded a 'Jazz album' (apparently) and is quite popular. Therefore good for Jazz if I was to be sarcastic about your argument.

I don't give a fuck about Wynton's politics anymore, 5 years ago I was obsessed with his music and consequently would spout alot of his ideology too (which I think is what all 21 year olds do, is have alot of opinions that mean shit)

Now its not particularly in high rotation but most of it is still really beautiful to me, I gain alot of inspiration from it but hopefully I have some opinions of my own these days. His last few records have been fairly hit and miss I think, but the latest (if you can stand the poetry) is pretty badarse.

but yeah in general I agree with you, however in the grand scheme of things I don't think anything the man says will make people buy more or less Jazz albums. If you go to itunes you can see the top Jazz downloads are still Kind of Blue, Norah Jones and some Louis Armstrong. Nothing changes.

Yeah it does, Norah wasn't there 50 years ago and 50 years ago the critics canned Kind of Blue. In 50 years they will still be buying Kind of Blue but Norah Jones work will most likely be forgotten.


Trumpetguy: I loved Lew Swires and Rex Yurears - very funny.

[aj]

Did they really can Kind Of Blue??

(If so : bastards!)

[captain]

Good call Vicki. My point is the general cd buying public are not buying wynton Marsalis records, neither are they buying Dave Douglas records.

Marsalis actually just left blue note and from now on will only be doing digital releases apparently.

[punter]

Jun 29, 2009 11:26:46 GMT 10 isaacs said:

You misunderstand me. I made no comment negating the high quality and volume of jazz music available.

I implied that jazz had a PR problem, it's terribly arid for jazz out there in terms of profile in the big picture. That was what I meant by "desert".

I suggested that the PR efforts of Wynton Marsalis were a glass half full, in response to criticisms of him and those same PR efforts.

Then I said a glass half full in the desert is a godsend. And that I found it self-defeating that others would carp, though of course they have every right to.

Follow my reasoning and you'll see I wasn't talking about the music per se at all.

One thing that doesn't quite fit with what you're saying here is that Wynton actively works against anything that doesn't fit into his canonical definition of 'jazz.' Therefore he could hardly be described as a PR godsend for the kinds of musicians I mention in my post. Anyone ever see that interview he did with Grabowsky when PG asked him what Europeans have contributed to the history of jazz and he basically said 'nothing.' Now that's bizarre and ignorant.

I think Michael Zilber pretty much nails it in "J'Accuse, Burns And Marsalis"

"Wynton, a truly smart man, with gifted ears and powerful instincts, KNEW that he had nothing new to say, that he was only a brilliant mimic. He was not , to paraphrase Gil Evans, a sound innovator. Knowing this, Wynton, in a position of influence and power unparalleled in jazz, chose to redo the rules of the game. If he couldn’t move the music past the innovations of early 60s Miles, he would reject ALL jazz after that as fraudulent, either cacophonous garbage or cynical commercial sellout. Wynton, as jazz pope of the retro-crowd, released infallible papal bull (in both senses of the word) after papal bull: All electric jazz is cynical commercial pandering. Free jazz is pseudo-intellectual claptrap and so on and so on. Each pronouncement from Marsalis and approving amen from Crouch, Murray, et al. was designed to insulate him from the awful truth: He had nothing new to say in the art form he loved."

[bobbob]

Well... to me, everything that Wynton M. stands for turns me off jazz as an art form and philosophy, a lot more than it makes me feel like engaging in it. Luckily, I don't need his bigoted opinions to inform me about things I see and hear about. If he is a PR godsend then he's promoting something I don't really relate to or want to be a part of. (.. probably just my personal opinion as to what I think music (and especially jazz music in-particular ) should be about). Conventional/ Retro/ Classicist v. expressionistic/ boundarypushing/ iconoclasts.. I know what I am drawn to. .... that's just me i guess. (not against the great masters by any means, of course.. but they all were kinda pushing boundaries at one point as far as I can see).