2005 National Jazz Awards

[guitar man]

improvising is being able to interact with the band

if ur a true jazz singer youre PART of the band not the added extra 2 interact w/ the real musicians

history of the music didn't 'scat': Billie Holiday, Chet Baker, Frank Sinatra...

Frank Sinatra did cabaret NOT jazz I cant think of any of his tunes where he improvises did you ever hear him sing tunes different from one live performance to another that weren;t arrange for him by his MD? and its a fact that when techology changed in the recording studio he started overdubbing drop ins. Franky PLAYED with some great jazz musicians but what he did was not jazz but he was a really amazing vocalist with superb tone & good pitching & he could swing thats up till the last decades when he should have retired w/grace

[vickihb2]

Yeah right aj, you really want more tapes/CDs to listen to for potential Wang bookings (rotfl)

[steve]

only a few good scat singers? i can count over a dozen listed on first page of this thread so maths not the strongest skill here eh? more than merely a few brilliant musicians are real smart with numbers so its' interesting that 16 plus translates as a few so now what doz that tell ya

[happy]

I just love this one about if there's no improv it's not jazz. Does that mean when Louis plays trumpet he's a jazzer but if he starts singing he's not? What about some of the Ellington masterpieces where the whole tune is essentially written? What about any bigband recording if you remix it and remove the soloist? Is the rhythm section no longer playing 'jazz'? It's such a silly distinction, given that most jazz players are so genre based that they can scarcely be considered to be improvising anyway!

ps Frank Sinatra aint no cabaret. If you added a part for Frank to 'Sketches of Spain' would that make it jazz? Or is it not a jazz record anyway..........

[AOS]

Fuckin' eh happy... Get off the grass guitar man, Frank swings his arse off and changed the way we listen to the songs he performed and you don't get heavier than that! And yeah Steve you can count but I don't agree with you, nothin' wrong with my maths but only a few of those singers do it for me. And I also reckon, while I'm getting all uppity, that Kurt Elling's best CD is Flirting with Twilight and one of the reasons why it's so good is 'cos he doesn't fuckin scat... man I just can't stand him when he gets going with that shit.

[hm]

u'r weird man!

[tooter]

Guitarman, so you have decided that sinatra is not jazz? Very interesting. When Sinatra passed away, many musicians including Joe lovano came forward and mentioned how big his influence is. Maybe Sinatra is to subtle for you. Perhaps he should have learnt some blues scales, rather than redifining phrasing,style ,tone and many other aspects of the vocalists craft.

[God]

ive just come from the jazz festival opening night and i tell ya that no matter how stupid anyone ever is on this forum and it does happen cos you read the above thread youll get proof. nothing ever posted on this forum could be as bad as the freakin speeches at the Forum tonight. Jesus Christ what the FUCK are they on man? do they really think ANYONE wants to listen to who does the artwork for the brochures or the pr chick for fucks sake get a life and stop boring the paying punters with crap speeches

and ive only had one shitty Forum warm beer

[God]

Joe Lovano was under the influence of a religious cult when he siad that about Sinatra but not many people know that

[i still cant bare it]

and i can't believe anyone would actually own up to the 'art' work for the umbria brochure... it's terrible.

[God]

Umbria Jazz graphics was the devils work.

remember arts festivals are highly political
with politics there is always greed
with greed there is stupidity
and ego
and personal deep insecurity
and power mongoring
and megalomania

i invented all this stuff when i got bored with scrabble. watching the power struggle with this festival is very entertaining especially when the board members dislike each other with the passion of a Jesus freak

[tooter]

Religious cult hey? Strange point coming from"god".
Here are the list of musicians that praise sinatra as a "jazz" musician in the may 1998 issue of jazztimes: Joe Lovano, John Zorn, Montty Alexander,Ken Peplowski, Joe williams,Al Grey,Oscar Peterson,Bucky Pizzarelli and Sonny Rollins. Sinatra is on the cover of the March 1996 Downbeat, with the byline:"Sinatra and Jazz". Many musicians tell the story in this article of the profound influence Sinatra has had on thier playing. Including Lester young,John Scofield,Bob Berg andZoot Sims. And we all know how Miles Davis felt about Sinatra from reading his autobiography (and from the fact that he recorded many songs Sinatra recorded ie: "It never entered my mind") So once again it gets back to the argument of what a "jazz" singer is and does. If a singer treats his/her rhythm section as a playalong Cd by bepopping and scatting the same old tired phrases over the top of them, are they more of a "jazz" singer than someone who performs with the band, and actually creates a musical experience that becomes art simply by the way they interpret the song. Where is the greater art? Is it in the subtle detail of the way a vocalist tells us the story of a song, or is it in a bombastic rendering of scales over chords? If a vocalist in a "jazz" setting can actually take the band and audience to an interesting place, is that not a deeper experience for musician and singer alike? Listen to Sinatra sing "In the Wee Small Hours Of The Morning" on the album of the same name. That should settle the argument.

[Kenny]

Good points, but I prefer Der Bingle myself.

[AOS]

Man I'm bereft... I thought Frank was God and God was Frank.
Tooter you're right on the money baby.
God are you sure you're not Frank fucking with us all? Testing us by saying that scatting is hip? Are you sure?

[vickihb2]

God if you really do exist may I pray that you help end this neverendingdebateonsingersandjazz

That song from Blazing Saddles comes to mind:

"I'm tired,
Tired of being admired,
oi, I'm so tired! "

Franky was a God! Did you ever see that clip where he sang Angel Eyes. Just him standing in the studio, suit, tie, cigarette. That was something! Talk about presence.

Is every piece of music that influences jazz musicians jazz? Yes it is all Jazz. It's all just music. Oh sugar, now I'm debating jazz vocals again. Someone stop me, God please help me out?