2005 National Jazz Awards

[The Doctor]

Medically, I'm of the opinion that singers should be spayed; like dogs or cats, to prevent their code from re-entering the gene pool.
While this need is most dire in the case of opera singers, it could also work wonders on the scat singer.

Perhaps the winner of the vocal competition could put their prize money towards this end.

It's just a suggestion.

zup-dup dwee-bop.

[Cecilia Bartolli]

You're a jealous cunt aren't ya?

[Irvin Yalom]

I have found over the years, through my work with artists, that a commmon problem with the musician who does not sing in public, is that he or she often has a deeply supressed yearning to in fact be Frank Sinatra or Mark Murphy or Michelle Nicolle.

This comes from a deep resentment of a singer obtaining more attention and spotlight than the musician in question, often undeservedly so. It is also a sign of a deep lack of self awareness, paranoia, insecurity, low self esteem and narcissim.

The violinist resent the Soprana

The bandleader hates the Torch singer

and so it goes on...


You can see it manifest with bitchy comments about singers and nasty jokes designed to make the musicians feel superior and thus more comfortable with themselves.

I would proscribe twenty years psychtherapy and Prozac or Soloft to begin the process and rebuilding the musicians self esteem and self awareness to the point that they might rejoice in the good voices and simply ignore the bad ones.

[bod]

real singing good.
jazz 'cabaret' bad.
if you can't tell the difference then you're probably a punter.

[Kenny]

Guest-bod said:

real singing good.
jazz 'cabaret' bad.
if you can't tell the difference then you're probably a punter.

Bod - you are a prat who hardly ever seems to think before posting.

Punters = fans
Cabaret as cabaret (even if it poses as jazz) = can be good
Real singing? What the fuck does that mean?
Go away and play for yourself.

[bod]

weir, wish i knew as much as you.

i post what i feel to be the case.

no posturing here, old bean.
you're free to like what like whether you can play a note or not.

have you singled me out for special treatment or are you regularly this combative?

[me]

Fight, Fight, bring it on !!

[bod]

no answer from kenny.
probably too busy having a real life, the nerve.
yes, i used the term 'punter' disparagingly.

not to indicate a 'fan' but rather a dullard who consumes anything thrown at them wholesale, without searching for a profound musical experience.

as a denizen of the jazz clubs of the world kenny, you are not this person.
unless you take your suited mates to jazz performances in order to impress, only to talk all the way through.

i thought it rather obvious that 'real' singers are those who know the idiom, can swing the band and emote the tune.
sorry for the easy target but Rod Stewart doesn't do it for me in this regard.

if i am to believe your earlier posts re. pop stars releasing 'jazz' albums, it would appear that you to demand a certain authenticity from the singers you choose to listen to.
of course if you want to represent the integrity of kylie's forthcoming post bop efforts and the millions who will buy the album, concert ticket and t-shirt, then go right ahead.
it's your right.

after all these are only words and your description of mike nock's band as 'rockin' tells me as much about the performance as my calling a singer 'real'.
ie, sod all.
i wasn't there, i didn't hear the jazz go down.
all i have is your opinion, which i can surmise as 'kenny likee gig'.

as a guy who peddles the written word, i thought you'd have a real grip on this whole aesthetic / semantic thing.
or you really do just think i'm a prat.

[Kenny]

bod: not for the first time, I was simply reacting to your shoot from the hip style. I'm hardly ever combative - in fact I try above all for silliness and larfs.

But I sense in many of your posts a bitterness and cynicism that I suspect is not deliberate.

When I said the Nock gig rocked, I was simply posting in haste in a limited time frame as a visitor. No reply? I'm on holiday and don't have all-day access to the internet.

Yep, and touche, I love ripping pop stars for doing the so-called jazz thing.

But I rather took your real singers jibe to be rather broad - to me, even if it's only a slight interest, there are real, good cabaret singers. And real good country singers. And real good yodellers. Although I hate them!

I love the interent but freaking hell I'm simply not going to be held to the same standards - be they high or low - as my paying job. Hell, this unpaid and fun and I like it that way.

Finally, the net for all its benefits can be misleading when it comes to personality and affability.

Could be you and I should be pals - again, I sense something there.

But, yup, for the moment I do simply think you're a prat - person really after telling-off.

[happy]

geez, its a funny thing this forum - we all run around trying to be amusing and wind up treading on each other's toes! I think you're right Kenny, I think you and Bod are busy agreeing with each other, and I think bod was just trying to make a clever little jape (which was pretty funny 'coz it's true')

[vickihb2]

And it all goes round and round. It all goes round and round.

[bod]

i have strengthened my resolve not to argue again with anyone on this board.
every day, i let a song go out of my heart.

[Kenny]

Guest-happy said:

geez, its a funny thing this forum - we all run around trying to be amusing and wind up treading on each other's toes! I think you're right Kenny, I think you and Bod are busy agreeing with each other, and I think bod was just trying to make a clever little jape (which was pretty funny 'coz it's true')

That's a good call.

[vickihb2]

Bod - you are a prat who hardly ever seems to think before posting.

Punters = fans
Cabaret as cabaret (even if it poses as jazz) = can be good
Real singing? What the fuck does that mean?
Go away and play for yourself.

Kenny I agree with both you and Bod (sometimes).

I think we are all Prats who often post before thinking, because this is a forum, not a publication. That is OK. The idea is a discussion, debate, and place to have fun, swap info and vent. One can make sweeping generalisations one day and say the total opposite the next. That is the fun of a forum. I think of it like a bar, or a dinner party discussion. I don't think it is supposed to be all about carefully thought through and constructed written pieces. If that was the case it would only be online Opinion.

Anyway, I enjoy the banter, the bickering and the silliness on this forum and I imagine that even, I, Vicki Horne Bonet, Queen of the World, will occasionally post something stupid that upsets someone. But, you'll just have to take it on the chin and then you might think of some amusing way to get even. But you are all gentlemen on this forum, aren't you?

PS I can think of several hundred punters (Wang audience for example) who might be offended by an inference that their opinion is less valued than a professional musician's by a professional musician.

[happy]

VickiHB said:

PS I can think of several hundred punters (Wang audience for example) who might be offended by an inference that their opinion is less valued than a professional musician's by a professional musician.

well yes, but as a professional musician you are to some extent dependent on your peers for their input and respect - educated and informed opinions that you cannot expect from an everyday punter. At the same time , there is often nothing more satisfying than getting great feedback from people who obviously know nothing at all about music but who just "got it"! - but if you start worrying about chasing around trying to please those people you're going to get awfully lost...