What the F**k Happened to Black Popular Music?

[isaacs]

But I thought there were some interesting counter-points to that argument in the commentary regarding nihilistic rock and Alice Cooper in particular

[Kenny]

admin said:

But I thought there were some interesting counter-points to that argument in the commenatary regarding nihilistic rock and Alice Cooper in particular

Those are fair anough points, Mark, but ...

That sort of thing in rock has never seemed as intrinsic to the music as is the case of rap.

And that genre's defenders seem to be admitting that's the case with their "but there are some worthy rap artists" spiel.

[jamie]

Lewis...is that really you? From Verticordia?

[thierryf]

Maybe Yooz are Looking in the wrong places. Check Queen Latifa , Chaka Kahn especially Live stuff. It's still all there. there are plenty of others too. They give as good as they get. They just dont bring in the bucks like 50 cent can. Yet. I'd also add that given the lethargic response for Industry to Public opinion , we could expect a counter swing from the "Gangsta" Bull anytime soon. Lets hope.

[thierryf]

May i also offer an insiders POV "The Ice Opinion" by Ice T [Book]
Amazon.com- The Ice Opinion- Who Gives a Fuck?- Books- Ice-T,Heidi Siegmund.webarchive

[ladylex]

Ive noticed there are trends. Each decade seems to change focus from one ethnic group, race or nation to the next. It seems to swap sides too – from Europe (namely, the UK) then to the US. I think we are at the UK phase, where focus is heavily on Dance music. Artists such as Inaya ‘Jiffy’ Davis now known the world around as Inaya Day are seeing the positives of joining this industry – it’s a demography where the listeners are predominantly involved with the IT industry and have major $$ to throw around.

I love most Rap genres. I do not like Reggae or Dancehall (which I believe is the genre you expressed most distaste in Mr Ramieriz) because of those horrid Casio sounds. However, Rap has certainly evolved since the mid 90s – some of the grooves are beautifully complex. But you also have to remember that rap is about the vocal lines – not necessarily the instruments or grooves. The vocal lines become an instrumental texture themselves. Its damn hard to sing-speak in time – it takes a great deal of natural rhythm and damn’ed hard work. Rap was also a reaction to the verbose and OTT textures and steady incline toward commercialism of Funk (which I have actually divided into genres myself as Hard and Soft Funk). It was about being ‘real’, returning to roots, to the streets. But then, when the black dudes started making $$ and getting bling from it, it became a krapfight and ostracised the community IMO. “Im better than you are, even though you tried to make me think otherwise”. Downtrodden kids loved this stuff because they could relate to the words, and dream of a better time when they had their hoes and their other garden tools Personally, Im over it. I DO however, continue to appreciate the efforts of such producers (the TRUE talent IMO) as Dr Dre Jay Z and Pharrell and other producers who cant come to mind.

HOWEVER:
NZ rap has really taken off. Its taken where the US Rap went wonky and projected its own heartbreak of lost culture and pride. With the natural musicality of NZers prevalent too, I think Rap has found a new home with the indigenous people of NZ. This is also happening here. But I enjoy NZ rap more because of that natural musicality I suspect. So it just depends upon the focus. Maybe Cock Rock will be the next point of focus.

[alimcg]

Did anybody catch the freestyling rappers at the comedy festival?

A nomination for greatest rap ever - Homer Simpson in his car with the Chaka Khan rap.

[plunk]

I think Rap like most genres is at its artistic best when 1) the groove is really strong and the sounds ,loops etc have some serious creative input, and 2) when the lyrics and intent are not shoving a literal message in your face. Its one thing to employ literalism to tout political and reactionary views -music being used for that purpose generally has less artistic intention - its another for listeners to find some parallelism or empathy with music that may be inspired politically or sexually or chemically - whatever, but attempts to express these musically.
Its so difficult now for musicians in any popular genre to generate this kind of openness - the tools of imagery employed by video artists can railroad a song into
a one dimensional straight-jacket - Imaginative input on the listener/viewers part is non existent - or at least heavily contextualised.
If art doesnt inspire and expand the imagination then whats it doing?

[alimcg]

If art doesnt inspire and expand the imagination then whats it doing?

It's making people with no genuine interest in it very rich.

[oliphant]

I didn't realise that popular music had a colour?

[bronze]

well!! i hav a lot to say on this topic!!
firstly.. i loved Kenny drew's article. i loved the way he just put across his view so strongly without the sense of shame or apology in it watsoever. the way he put it across made me for a while there believe i agreed with him!! but the more i read on in the discussion comments on allaboutjazz, the more i realised the complexity of the views and of my own views.

i hav to agree with Tam that u cannot bag an ENTIRE genre.. thats nearly like being racist - catagorising rap and labelling it a certain way. there are always going to be exceptions to any genre, any avenue..
Personally, i am tolerant of an eclectic range of music and dont mind rap in certain situations. it has a purpose, and i respect that. a lot of top 40 music is made for the one main purpose - clubbing. and im sure it serves this purpose well.

I didnt understand Kenny's narrow view on "what" music actualy "had to consist of" (melody, harmony & rhythm). Each genre has its own art, and sometimes the point of a genre is thinking outside the square, or as above, serving a particular purpose. I dont believe u can actualy classify music as fitting certain standard "requirements" like that; if it had to then we would reach a point where there is nowhere for it to go!
Having said this however, i can completely agree with the point that music appears to have declined in its quality and message. Only recently hav i started discovering groups like Earth, Wind & Fire, and i just cant get over how good music once was!! its not fair, i wish i had lived in those eras, the music was so much better and on so many levels! its no wonder we hav emo kids and high teen suicide rates, listening to the depressing messages created in the music heard on the radio. what happened to the happy 'peace man!' messages of the sixties!!!

i find Kenny's comment: "I think that most of the students in music schools today who are studying jazz and classical music are wasting their fucking time and their parents' money!" hilariously funny!! i guess i would classify for that genre - "wasting their fucking time"!
but like many other musicians.. we arent doing it for time or money! we are doing it for the joy (sappy as that sounds) of it, we have found ourselves through our music (oh god i sound so philosophical) and its where we want to be, wat we want to b doing and those of us who are passionate about it would not exchange what we are doing for anything. after all - what would be the fulfilment in writing "some asinine lyrics about bitches, ho's and pimps" just to "make a ton of money" if it is not something you are passionate about??

It comes down to that i guess. At least all the wannabe-rappers R passionate about something and not just sitting around on the streets smoking pot and talking about when they last got trashed. It is when someone is passionate enough about something that they will get somewhere with it, and most wannabe-rappers are at least trying.
I agree that rap, in a certain repect, has little musical quality and that the musical ability of most rappers is "questionable", but i think that it deserves respect in its own right, as do all genres of music.

[isaacs]

Hello "bronze" Firstly - welcome to Ozjazzforum! And secondly, thanks for a great and substantial post on a hot topic. Hope to see more posts from you!

[bronze]

hi! thanx - glad to b here! im sure you will

[ladylex]

oliphant said:

I didn't realise that popular music had a colour?

Ooo it does

All the black people love their bass and know how to dance lol

[ladylex]

lol

Still doesnt mean he caint! lol