Problem & Solution for Forum

[oj]

The disturbing problem with this forum is that it has been overtaken by one or two internet ‘trolls’. A troll can be defined as “someone who comes into an established discussion forum, and posts inflammatory, rude, repetitive or offensive messages designed intentionally to annoy and antagonize the existing members or disrupt the flow of discussion.”

Usually trolls hide behind a false name, but what’s truly disturbing for this forum is that all the trolls are known and easily identifiable in the local jazz community. I’m not talking about the debate between Frank Di Sario and Ladylex here. They simply have divergent views over praising Mark’s new recording. Ladylex made what appeared to some to be a personal attack on Di Sario, without knowing him personally or his music. Strange, considering that one of the fundamental characteristics of jazz is diversity of opinion. There’s others who later got into the debate and these individuals made troll-like comments. A few months ago a very well known, and talented, pianist openly defamed Donna Coleman in a discussion thread. The attack wasn’t even relevant to the discussion at hand. He later apologized but didn’t explain why he acted in such an irrational manner. Now that was troll-like behavior.

So what should users who care about this forum do?

The solution to the problem is not closing down, or archiving the forum. That is precisely what individuals who demonstrate the twisted personality traits of a troll want to achieve.

There are several possible motivations for trolling ranging from anonymous attention-seeking, anger, to amusement. Most of the motivations suggest a troll has deep seated psychological problems. You can read more about it here if you wish:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

The suggested solution this problem is for users to ignore the troll(s) entirely: “Better results normally ensue when users take the moderator role and describe more constructive behaviors in a non-judgmental, non-confrontational way. Trolls are excited by trollhunters, and frustrated by "ignorers," and neither of these emotions produce positive results for the forum. Engaging trolls results in "flame wars." Trolls frustrated by the "ignore strategy" may leave the forum (and either troll elsewhere, or become constructive users) or may become progressively more inflammatory until they get a response.”

One can only hope the out brake of trolls in this forum is not an accurate reflection of what the small local community of jazz musicians is like in reality.

It’s up to the users who care about this forum to save it if they wish.

[maurice]

Could this be Dr. Phil?

Once and for all OJ, Ladylex's objections (and mine) to Frank's posts have nothing to do with a difference of opinion. It was the superfluous smart- arsed remarks designed to put Mark down that offended us (and quite probably Mark). Ladylex in particular, has made this clear. It is a completely different issue. I wish you guys would stop invoking Voltaire's ideas every time someone upsets your sensibilities or the flow of where you think the discussion should be heading. The right to an opinion is a two way street.

[mim]

I didn't want to get involved in that argument (any more than I already did), but maurice, would you give it a rest already? What most people seem to understand is that Frank's post that ladylex replied to with such venom, quoted thus:

frankied said:

Yes, i opologise for not "instantly recognising the beauty in this album"
I realised it after four thousand, two hundred and twenty one listens. -does this count?

had NOTHING to do with Mark or his album, and EVERYTHING to do with ladylex, and the way she aggressively dismisses people's right to an opinion that doesn't replicate her own. She could have posted about any album in this way and I'm fairly certain Frank would have come up with the same smart arse response. Regardless, the reply that followed was uncalled for.

This post doesn't come out of any loyalty to Frank, I've never met Frank. I do respect Mark, and although I haven't heard the album in question, I have faith that I will probably enjoy it very much when I do hear it.

oj has a point.

EDIT: I just know I'm gonna get backlash from that, so I'll clarify: I am aware that there were other comments Frank may have made in other threads somehow relating to Mark, I'm only talking about the incident that oj mentioned above.

[maurice]

Like Mark, Joe is creative, productive and highly successful, having contributed much to Australian music. Hence the flack and the silence surrounding that flack. That's my theory. What's your explanation Chopkins?

[maurice]

Like yourself???

[maurice]

And speaking of stirring up shit, wasn't it you, who walked out of the toilets at Dizzie's one night, carrying a toilet brush and played the next tune, with it sitting as a prop on the piano?

[saintmonk]

Gee Chopkins, you sound pretty bitter and twisted yourself. How many days left on this forum?

[captain]

Ouch! Hot damn... ;D

In another forum I frequent two guitarists have just set up a duel at a gig to sort out their differences. Perhaps we need to have a piano battle to sort the men from the egomaniacs?

[ladylex]

Since Mim appears to be pointing fingers:

Did that comment HAVE to appear at all when I was so obviously thrilled for Mark? To me, that was YET again, another example of complete disrespect towards an emminent musician and overall friggin awesome person.

And so the shitslinging continues peoples. Blame me all you like - but when the moderator gets disrespect and disparaged like he has, expect his friends to come out swinging.

This aint serving any positive purpose btw.

PS I aint posting under a false name. This is the name I use for my business - and its extremely easy to find out who I am. Google is your friend. Im not afraid of recriminations or anything. Im proud of what I wrote in defense of Mark - especially as hardly anyone else appears keen to support him. Shame on many others for allowing this to happen.

[saintmonk]

Chopkins, your posts have inspired me to delve into the recent history of this forum, and 'flack' is a polite word to describe what Joe C has had to endure from his colleagues within these pages. Some of the most cutting comments immediately followed the announcing of a gig he was doing with James Morrison. Rude and insulting remarks (the moderator even had to delete one) ...all for advertising a gig!

Since you brought it up, you have obviously kept a keen eye on the public stoning of Joe C, but the sad bit is that you don't seemed altogether displeased.
I've heard Joe speak very highly of you, by the way, and it seems a shame that a musician of your talent is incapable of showing a little generosity of spirit towards a man whose achievements hardly need spelling out.

I don't know whether your insinuation that Maurice is Joe C is correct, and I don't really care.

The message that I'm getting here is that YOU MUST REALLY HATE JOE C and that you're jealous and vindictive.

For your sake, I hope Maurice does turn out to be Joe, otherwise you'll be apologizing to a second great pianist within the space of a few months.

[isaacs]

chopkins said:

Anyway, Mark knows who Maurice is

Goodness I'm tired of this stuff.

Colin, in spite of your grand apology and heartfelt request to be reinstated after abusing the forum you've contributed virtually nothing since, but you now suddenly seem inspired to post regularly on this thread. Is this the kind of dialogue you relish in a forum?

Yes Colin, I know who Maurice is. And it is not Joe as you clearly insinuate.

I wish Joe would post here. The tone of the forum would be raised more than considerably. That's why the one contribution I have made in the 6 weeks of my self-imposed exile (apart from housekeeping announcements as administrator) has been linking to his extremely interesting piece. Which attracted virtually no comment, even to intelligently disagree with the provocative, fascinating statements he made. But that's ozjazzforum for you.....

[kazuo]

I must say, I agree with Mark. This is all getting far too tiresome.
I log on to this forum occassionally in the hope of reading and perhaps contributing to music related conversation. It is really quite boring finding public slagging competitions to be the overwhelming content of the forum.
I sincerely hope that the contributions of some members, who find it necessary to bag others, can be redirected into constructive talk about what it is that is intended with this forum. (See top of screen - ozJAZZforum - not ozSLAGforum)

[maurice]

Dear Chopkins,
Now that you have it confirmed, straight from the moderator's mouth, that I'm not who you thought I was, does this mean we can be friends?
Mx

[captain]

Colin's right, get a sense of humour about this. If we were all at a bar giving each other shit everybody would get the joke. It's not that hard to read between the lines.

[ladylex]

Did someone say it was beer o'clock?

Maurice - I like you. Can we be friends? ;D