Musicians interviewing musicians

[ironguts]

Well at least you're helping, thanks.

[gator]

Jun 1, 2009 10:23:40 GMT 10 ironguts said:

Well thanks Tim, that's a good read. I like this "After two years wasted completing a Diploma of Education". I like the last line too, I can relate to that, except I only have 2 kids. Your next question;
How do you feel about the direction of tertiary education in relation to improvised music in Australia?

Ok, Gator, where's yours? Or let me ask properly.
Who is Gator?

Dont ask me - except as Gator I can propose that Tertiary education like many other 'commodities' these days varies depending on where you get it.I tend to agree with captain - especially now. Seeking out musicians and music is going to offer the best and most intense musical experiences for many improvisers. In regard to Melbourne, there was a time some 5 to 10 years ago when the VCA for instance was finally starting to (I emphasise starting to) offer a meaningful learning experience for many musicians who were investigating music making in a contemporary environment. Prior to that, the VCA at least offered plenty of playing opportunities within its program and connected aspiring students with established artists. The number of fine and unique players that have emerged from the VCA are at least partially representative of something going right there.But after 5 or 6 years of mismanagement and exploitation(for the purposes of certain autocrats moving on to greener pastures) , political ineptitude, social apathy, piecemeal, hamstrung and weak leadership, internal bickering and inequity, the chickens are coming home to roost. This doesn't necessarily spell doom for improvised music there - because the department has survived understaffed and under - resourced for most of its existence.But if the demise of the VCA music school and its philosophies result in all going down with the ship, or rather if certain individuals continue to put their own upward mobility ahead of some artistic vision ,if Melbourne Uni blunders ahead with its American Model at the expense of real music making - then somewhere else, Monash , NMIT, will put heir hand up -
The only silver lining is that attitudes to research and performance are changing ( slowly) so that those who wish to pursue a Post Grad education may find more accreditation given to their experience and achievements. Only, if they are pursuing these degrees with a view to teaching at tertiary level , they might like to consider mowing lawns...or changing nappies.......

[aj]

Jun 3, 2009 17:14:09 GMT 10 alimcg said:

They're good girls, aren't they... you should get one of them to caddy for you.

and swing the club for you!

[ironguts]

Gator, well said indeed. Hopefully more minds like yours can have input into the future of these things, though that might be too much to ask for.
There does seem to be an increased Masters/DMA influx at the moment. Many musicians, even without previous degrees, are now moving towards completing a 'higher education degree'. From what I see, and feel on a personal level, it's a reaction to an extreme lack of performance opportunity combined with an increase in the level of required education for teaching positions. Like you say, don't go there if you don't wish to teach at a tertiary level, but it would appear that a Masters would be required soon to teach at any level.
Mm, might be lawns and nappies for me, though I've done the nappies, just cutting the grass left,,,,, can I cut yours?

[ironguts]

Now now aj, don't give jec more to feed on,,,,, if only I could swing.

[gator]

Jun 3, 2009 18:54:21 GMT 10 aj said:

Jun 3, 2009 17:14:09 GMT 10 alimcg said:

They're good girls, aren't they... you should get one of them to caddy for you.

and swing the club for you!

And change your nappies for you -

Dont worry Guts - I'll hang on to what little grass I have left thanks -never know when it'll come in handy .

Did the seppo's buy it? did you wangle professorial exile?

[ironguts]

Waiting waiting, still in the race, I think.

Yeah, a little grass left, there has been a drought hey? Hopefully it'll get wet again soon : )

We must hang soon buddy.

[timothystevens]

Professorial exile has to be the best-yet name for an album...

[Miriam Zolin]

May 30, 2009 20:16:23 GMT 10 punter said:

... diversity is the go for sure, let's hear about technicalities AND about how music makes you feel... But I'm certain guts would agree there are plenty of musicians who have some knowledge of the theoretical aspects of music but who actually understand very little about Music. I'm often much more interested in what the intelligent non-musician has to say about music; especially the non-musician who is engaged with art in a general sense. It seems to me that at times some musicians (often jazz musicians though, I hasten to add, certainly not Ironguts) are more interested in the means than ideas, in execution than gesture. I notice that my friends who are visual artists often hear right through the means and cut to the nub of what is actually going on in the music. They don't care if someone can execute fast lines or high notes or whatever but they can hear whether the music is happening or not. Shoot me down now if you please. Just my opinion.

Thanks Punter (I know others have moved on from this point in the discussion, but I'm just reading a bunch of posts that have miraculously appeared since I last logged on)

The language you use here of execution & gesture and means & ideas is right on the button. Extempore is (among other things) trying to provide a forum where musicians can articulate the same things about music that are articulated in the context of other art forms. The best discussions I've had with musicians are about the ideas, the gestures, the responses, the process. I'm not a musician so the musical technicalities go 'whoosh' over my head. But why is that a problem? If someone talks about the way this musician or that uses intervals (that's just a recent thing I read), then I get the gist and either (1) move on or (2) explore further And goddammit, if we only ever had conversations with familiar content, what would be the point of that?

I don't need to know the theory to appreciate the music. Knowing theory would change my experience of the music, but it may or may not make it 'better'. As it is, I have trouble finding words for my experience of music because it (by its nature) cuts through our wordy bits and straight to our feely bits. As a writer, one of my biggest challenges is to find ways to write about it that aren't embarassing. I'm nowhere near there yet. A reason I admire John Clare's writing so much is that he often finds a way to do it.

When visual artists and writers are interviewed nobody gets hung up on the references to technique or style. Is that because everybody thinks they could easily be a painter or a writer 'if only they had the time' (certainly a prevalent misconception in world of words)? There are technicalities in the art of writing and when they come up in an interview with a writer, nobody says "oh, no, now you're just saying things that only writers want to hear". Bollocks. If there's content in an interview that speaks to the universals that apply to all artists (and all humans, at some level) then if a technicality pops up people either read with interest or skip over it and go to the next bit that interests them! Der.

For some reason music holds a special place in people's minds in that the technical expertise required to do it well becomes a reason not to engage in conversation about it. I find that disheartening. Don't improvising musicians have the same questions about life and what it means as the rest of us? Aren't they seeking to articulate something, by working on their technique and working on ideas and aren't they, to a certain extent, often driven to do all this by something they can't explain? Just like any artist.