What are you listening to?

[timothystevens]

Yes I've read Stomping the Blues. Best definition of the word 'funk' that I can remember.

It's not that I'm not on your side, it's just that sometimes ideas like 'era-definition' need refinement and clarification. How does the history get written? Where do the ideas we trust come from? All that kind of academic, hair-splitting shit. Only a complete idiot would say that slavery had nothing to do with 20th century popular music, but is it the whole story? Could any single element be the whole story? Albert Murray reads the history of jazz and other popular musics one way, and his writing is well worth the time, but there are others, too. I think it's only when we consider music as always in a state of negotiation that we can begin to apprehend the complexity of the situation. Who knows what's happening right now that, going largely unnoticed, will come to the attention of someone somewhere in 20 or 30 years and appear (to them) to have defined this time we're experiencing?

[glean]

captain said:

I'm sorry Tim, I didn't read your post properly. It appears that you are on my side. or maybe not? It's late and I'm confused. Either way you all rock and I have to defer my opinions to old c**nts with more experience.

reckon you and Tim are both right . but i never thought I'd hear anyone describe Tim as an old c**nt. Realise this is affectionate in intent Captain, BUT,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I'd really like OJF to lose the use of that term unless someone is praising the vagina. I dont like censorship but using that word to insult someone is so hurtful to our wives, girlfriends, mothers and daughters. ,,,,Using a beautiful part of the female anatomy as the worst insult you can hurl at someone.....why do we do that? Why is it ok? its as hurtful to many women as racial abuse. have we all got vagina envy? I dont object to the word cunt btw just the way it is used in 99 per cent of cases.

Miriam please can you remind us whats the OJF policy of this kind of thing?

[timothystevens]

Remember Glen, this is the guy that asked me if I'm actually paulgrab, aka (at one time) the Count. Note the number of asterisks. Flattering to be in such company.

[pettman]

We most certainly need to lose the use of that word, most offensive.

To think that any music in Australia has been era-defining is a total farce. Even the best of Australian Jazz is a copy or direct result of the 'Jazz' that came from the American culture. As I have said though some of it is quite good.

[timothystevens]

It's worse than I thought. There are occasionally glimmers on this board of positive thinking, which is to say not necessarily 'everything is great and life is super-dooper' so much as 'perhaps we could talk things over intelligently, open-mindedly and with an eye to the bigger issues.' Such are the reasons I, for one, keep reading and occasionally contributing. But to think there are people who can seriously (presuming it is serious, although I reserve the right to suspect or hope that it may not be) offer something so outrageously simplistic, bone-headed, and ignorant as 'the best of Australian Jazz is a copy or direct result of the 'Jazz' that came from the American culture' makes my head spin. This piddling little parish, to paraphrase Patrick White's description of Australia. Grow up.

[ironguts]

Captain, is it the Music that defines the era or the era that defines the music?
Since an era can be a period of time marked by a specific character then I'm right to say there was a Mark Simmonds era, defined by the music that he made I would say.
For me, Mark Simmonds and his mates of the 70's and early 80's were era defining, they defined a period of Australian music, which to me is unique, powerful and influential to our/my generation. Ok, they might not have created a whole new music but they still had their narrative that was influenced by the society, Australian, at the time. Thank christ they didn't have to deal with slavery or Racism.
On your terms I hope that there is never another era-defining music.

Tim, love the thing you said that music is always in a state of negotiation, nice. Always was, always will be.

[ironguts]

Oh, re the use of the word cunt, it's in the macquarie and does have meanings not pertaining to female genials, though that is one of the 6 listed.

[glean]

My OXford Dictionary only has two hmm... interested to know what the other four are, Guts.

Some more thoughts on cunts..

How may I love my wife's cunt?
Let me count the ways...
I love it's beauty, the taste, it's sweet smell.
My children travelled through it
When we make love it comes in very handy
the many pleasures of cunt worship are sublime.


But can anyone here think of a word that when used in anger, is used with more hatred than cunt?

And why is that so?

Ironguts I am SO glad you are back. . Always fun to read your posts.

Tim I can only see two asterisks, but I dont have my glasses on so if I am wrong thanks for correcting me.

[captain]

I apologise for my profanity, but it was not an insult but rather a term of affection and a tongue in cheek way of expressing my relative youth to Dr Stevens. He is neither old, nor a cunt.

You are right in pointing out that the full influence of music from the last 20 or 30 years is impossible to guage at this point, and who knows - Mark Simmonds long term influence might be huge.

When I was watching the Ken Burns series with my dad, (a long time punter but not a muso, and a huge fan of 60's and 70's avant garde, and Jarrett et al) he seemed to think Burns left out alot of this music because it was all too recent. (ie too soon to do a 'history' doco on).

So if you can direct me to the location of some of those books I'd appreciate it.

Captain, is it the Music that defines the era or the era that defines the music?
Since an era can be a period of time marked by a specific character then I'm right to say there was a Mark Simmonds era, defined by the music that he made I would say.
For me, Mark Simmonds and his mates of the 70's and early 80's were era defining, they defined a period of Australian music, which to me is unique, powerful and influential to our/my generation. Ok, they might not have created a whole new music but they still had their narrative that was influenced by the society, Australian, at the time. Thank christ they didn't have to deal with slavery or Racism.
On your terms I hope that there is never another era-defining music.

Fair enough Guts, I cannot take away his influence on your generation, but to compare it to African diasporic music (not that you did, really) is just foolish.

In the case of all rock and roll and pop derived from the blues, it defined the era, not the other way around.

[alimcg]

I think the era and the music are intertwined. Society clearly influences music, and music as result defines an era when seen in historical perspective. The music of say, Drub, or the Beatles, for example, exists as it does because of society today, and the society the musicians grew up in. No matter how hard I try, I could never re-create those band's sound and energy for myself, as I have neither their experience in broader society, or their experience as musicians. But I can absorb both, and let them further influence my own individual output, which needs not to be completely new, or entirely unique to be a valid extension of the musical landscape.

[captain]

Tim, don't worry about Pettman, I think she's trying to get your goat.

[gator]

Thats absolutely right...keep Pettman away from your goat at all costs.

[bat]

When I was watching the Ken Burns series with my dad, (a long time punter but not a muso, and a huge fan of 60's and 70's avant garde, and Jarrett et al) he seemed to think Burns left out alot of this music because it was all too recent.

Too white for him and Stanley Crouch more likely... I think there is a palpable disdain of the influence of european classical , folk and mainstream music on jazz at that time - some of it justified.But listen to Crouch talking about Bitches Brew.... This is a guy who can only relate to music politically..

[timothystevens]

captain said:

Tim, don't worry about Pettman, I think she's trying to get your goat.

That goat's been nothing but trouble to me, she can have it.

If you want, drop by the VCA some Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday and I can help you out with those readings.

[aj]

Is that the same goat that attacked Al's car up at Wang about 10 years ago ?