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Post by mim on Jun 9, 2006 1:01:12 GMT 10
Way to bring up a 7 week old thread! Well, I'll bite.
I'm not going to go back and read the whole thread, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe the one who first used the phrase 'media whore' in reference to Diana Krall was your darling lady lex, while defending the woman. The phrase was then just taken and applied to the rest of the conversation.
In general I think I hear the word whore being directed at males more than females because people are often hypersensitive to sexism. Same goes for the word bitch. But if someone's a bitch, call her a bitch. Or an asshole. Or whatever gender-appropriate or gender-inappropriate term you feel applies to her behaviour.
I personally prefer something like Kenny's gender-neutral "fucking nutcake".
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Post by kazuo on Jun 9, 2006 9:59:00 GMT 10
But if someone's a bitch, call her a bitch. Or an asshole. Or whatever gender-appropriate or gender-inappropriate term you feel applies to her behaviour. I personally prefer something like Kenny's gender-neutral ". I personally prefer arsehole to asshole being an anglophile |
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Post by glean on Jun 9, 2006 11:08:14 GMT 10
Way to bring up a 7 week old thread! Well, I'll bite. In general I think I hear the word whore being directed at males more than females because people are often hypersensitive to sexism. Same goes for the word bitch. But if someone's a bitch, call her a bitch. Or an asshole. Or whatever gender-appropriate or gender-inappropriate term you feel applies to her behaviour. I personally prefer something like Kenny's gender-neutral "fucking nutcake". you hear the terms whore and bitch being directed more towards men? you must have a special circle of gender sensitive associates and friends, so good for you. you might be interested to know that the rest of world isnt like that, women get just as much of a raw deal in the jazz world as they do everywhere else and most of us men are blind to the misogyny in our own heads we donlt usually see it in ourselves or others and if we do we think it is not important but it is. i don;t want my daughter being treated like as second class citizen or earning less money when she grows up because shes female but the fact is that she will. we have to unlearn prejudice that is imbedded in our culture thats a very hard thing most people dont want to bother to do that. im still unlearnign a lot of the shit I grew up with i hope i keep unlearning prejudicial thinking or programming and learning new things. i gotta say i dont like hearing sex workers being referred to as whores let alone the term being applied to anyone outside of that necessary but sad industry i find it dissapointing and real sad that there is so much sexist crap in the arts community that i love so much and part of and even if that is the way it is and i cant stand by and not say anything because that makes me equally guilty even if i am 7 weeks too late cos you cant change thinking without changing language & you cant change the world by waiting for someone else to do it |
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Post by ladylex on Jun 9, 2006 11:30:32 GMT 10
My outcry actually started with a certain Events organiser using the words Fcuking Bitch against Diana Krall – which in my opinion is highly unprofessional and unnecessary.
That opinion hasn’t changed over the duration of this thread either. That is the punt you take when trying to draw crowds with a big name. It was simply a gamble that did not pay off.
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Post by aj on Jun 9, 2006 12:57:22 GMT 10
Signing a contract with a so-called professional artist might be a gamble in terms of whether the concert works financially or musically ; my point is that it shouldn't be a gamble as to whether the artist decides to honour the contract or not.
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Post by mim on Jun 9, 2006 15:58:30 GMT 10
you hear the terms whore and bitch being directed more towards men? you must have a special circle of gender sensitive associates and friends, so good for you. you might be interested to know that the rest of world isnt like that, I'm aware of how these terms are used in the rest of the world, I'm not as insular as you so condescendingly suggest. I was not just referring to experiences with the people I choose to spend time with. Google "media whore" and you will likely find that majority of people referred to as media whores, or who are self-professed media whores, are male. I don't think this term has much gender association, atleast not anymore. I'm not arguing about how much money females earn or should earn, or sexism in the music industry. Whether males are sexist or not, they usually don't want to appear sexist. I think the use of language has changed more than actual attitudes. And I think you are over reacting to the language used in this particular case, especially since, as I said before, the term would probably never have been brought up if ladylex hadn't used it, and she was using it in defence of Krall. I don't think aj is sexist for calling someone a bitch as a result of unacceptable behaviour. I dare say he would have reacted similarly had it been a male who had done the same thing. I personally prefer arsehole to asshole being an anglophile Good point. My mistake.  |
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Post by glean on Jun 9, 2006 16:36:26 GMT 10
i don;t want my daughter being treated like as second class citizen or earning less money when she grows up because shes female but the fact is that she will. Very noble glen. I agree gender prejudice still exists BUT this "women earn less because they are women" thing is a hoax, or a twisting of the truth without any nuance. Since the 70s it has been ILLEGAL to have different rates of pay for the same job for women and men. Show me one business that tries to do that and in one phone call I'll have 'em shut down tomorrow mate. NOW - female AVERAGE full-time earnings are less than male AVERAGE full-time earnings but women themselves make choices that cause the discrepancy. Far, far, more women VOLUNTARILY and WILLINGLY interrupt their careers to take on the full-time mother/homemaker role for a few years. The people who make it to the top in any field have unilinear, uninterrupted careers. Far more men than women are prepared to do that, and by and large women want it that way and are not FORCED to interrupt their careers (many would fight tooth and nail with their men if they wanted to ditch their job and be full-time fathers). This is what skews the AVERAGE. Choices freely made, not bias or discrimination. OK maybe there are some issues with childcare, if it was better quality and cheaper maybe more women would interrupt their careers, but many want to do the mother thing regardless. And it's questionable if we should be socially engineering it with brilliant cheap or free childcare so more parents get greedy and farm their kids out, it's been demonstrated that young kids thrive on having at least one parent around. And when it's to be one parent at home, overwhelmingly women put their hands up for the gig. Couples make that choice freely, it's a tiny minority that do it in reverse, and you can't social engineer it away especially when over an over you hear women saying it's their CHOICE to stay at home for a while. As a musician, if I CHOOSE to not play my instrument for a few years to do something I deem equally valuable (if not MORE valuable) then I have no business complaining about an unjust society if while I do that other musicians work hard and end up getting better paying gigs that I might have if I hadn't changed direction. You makes yer choices, and there's more to life than how much you earn. Sorry but this oft-repeated an unexamined hoax about female earnings has been repeated too many times. Unexamined? Hoax? Yes the Equal Opportunites Commission, United Nations etc really don't have a clue do they? they probably base all their statistics on a hunch i reckon. LOL |
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Post by alimcg on Jun 9, 2006 17:43:36 GMT 10
Whoa, andro, you're drawing one hell of a long bow if you interpret glen's comments that way. You're sounding a bit like bloody Stan Zemanek.
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Post by aj on Jun 9, 2006 18:12:16 GMT 10
He's used several words of more than one syllable..........that in itself makes any comparison with Stan Zemanek unfair !
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Post by aj on Jun 9, 2006 18:12:53 GMT 10
ok, he did say STFU.....a bit more on Stan's level !
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Post by alimcg on Jun 9, 2006 18:23:32 GMT 10
If it were really Stan he'd just keep on saying "you're a moron, you're a moron, you're a moron."
I was really just referring to the way andro (in his only two posts on this board) inferred so much from glen's comments that just wasn't there. Stan at least uses his real name.
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Post by glean on Jun 9, 2006 19:53:39 GMT 10
how come andro's a guest? did he or she sneak in the back door? i thought you had to join this forum for real to get in? have the rules changed? maybe its andrew bolt or janet albrechtsen looking for material...... has anyone ever seen them in the same room at the same time? i think they are one and the same andro...
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Post by glean on Jun 9, 2006 19:55:30 GMT 10
Unexamined? Hoax? Yes the Equal Opportunites Commission, United Nations etc really don't have a clue do they? they probably base all their statistics on a hunch i reckon. LOL Oh God. Mr PC GroupThink. Or No-think. Your answer to my points is simply that the United Nations exists? Wow. That the term "equal opportunity" gets thrown around? Wow again. What I say makes you LOL? I don't dispute statistics. I acknowledge them. For people like you the fact (and it is a fact) that average female earnings are less than average male earnings can only be interpreted one way "Oh my God! Oh my God! Discrimination!", you go. I just maintain that women's OWN CHOICES largely explain that gap (it's incidentally a fairly small gap these days). The choices of many of them (many more than men) not to buy into the (largely male) idea that the only thing that matters in life is earning money from 16-65. Yes all men and women could equally make the choice every one to equally divide everything equally, career, family (I'm so sick of that word "equal" when it's used to blur the beautiful variety of life away). Like automaton puppets socially engineered by the likes of you. The point is that any INDIVIDUAL woman can choose how she balances career and family. If ON AVERAGE there are differences between the way men and women as a whole do it, if less men and more women choose to interrupt their careers and stay at home with kids SHUT THE FUCK UP and stop being a fascist trying to social engineer the sum total of humanity. One college of surgeons was pilloried because it had no female graduates one year. Bias! Discrimination! people like you shriek. Then it was explained that a few years earlier absolutely no women had applied to enter the course, that particular year. Yeah, you go and tell those women they SHOULD have applied, like they had a DUTY to equalise the numbers. Yes that's right, tell them how to run their lives. btw andro your rant was so boring i didnt get past the first line so if you made any valid point, i missed it. sorry mate |
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Post by alimcg on Jun 9, 2006 20:13:48 GMT 10
Can't have been Andrew Bolt cause the rant didn't go off to something about Greens, Gays or Aboriginals, and Janet's too busy preparing her transformation of the ABC.
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Post by mim on Jun 9, 2006 23:01:42 GMT 10
Once somebody deletes their profile the names on their previous posts come up with 'guest' under them.
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