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Post by freddy on Sept 21, 2006 9:16:39 GMT 10
Yesterday I went into town, picked this up and checked out the line-up. I can now see what alimcg was referring to. . .and I agree. THIS DOESN'T BELONG IN THE LIST. Anybody with money or access to it can go and put together a band of American musicians. This doesn't belong on the list as it's not an Australian record and Don's doesn't belong for aesthetic reasons. like Matt Penman and Bill Stewart? genius... Yes, they can, as long as they are competent themselves. It's your problem if you don't know this. I lived and worked in New York for nearly a year and made friends with a number of musicians in the same league as the two you mention, who often talked about unremarkable sessions they'd been hired to do. They took the gig and did a professionable job. |
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Post by trumpetguy on Sept 21, 2006 10:58:48 GMT 10
like Matt Penman and Bill Stewart? genius... Yes, they can, as long as they are competent themselves. It's your problem if you don't know this. I lived and worked in New York for nearly a year and made friends with a number of musicians in the same league as the two you mention, who often talked about unremarkable sessions they'd been hired to do. They took the gig and did a professionable job. freddy, freddy, freddy..... |
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Post by aj on Sept 21, 2006 11:05:51 GMT 10
If it matters, Matt Penman is a kiwi, isn't he ?
(If they're any good, we claim them as our own................Mike Nock, Judy Bailey, Tim Finn, Phar Lap, etc)
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Post by Kenny on Sept 21, 2006 11:12:55 GMT 10
If it matters, Matt Penman is a kiwi, isn't he ? (If they're any good, we claim them as our own................Mike Nock, Judy Bailey, Tim Finn, Phar Lap, etc) Do I count? |
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Post by alimcg on Sept 21, 2006 12:44:26 GMT 10
I have no problem with Mark Sholtez hiring "name" players from the US (or his record company hiring them). I would, however, disqualify him for singing with an American accent.
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baw
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Post by baw on Sept 21, 2006 13:43:42 GMT 10
like Matt Penman and Bill Stewart? genius... Yes, they can, as long as they are competent themselves. It's your problem if you don't know this. I lived and worked in New York for nearly a year and made friends with a number of musicians in the same league as the two you mention, who often talked about unremarkable sessions they'd been hired to do. They took the gig and did a professionable job. great - thanks for the info and apologies for my ignorance. i am but a poor shepherd boy etc... now, can you tell me who else plays on James Muller's Aria nominated release 'Kaboom'? |
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Post by andrewh on Sept 21, 2006 19:43:57 GMT 10
I have no problem with Mark Sholtez hiring "name" players from the US (or his record company hiring them). I would, however, disqualify him for singing with an American accent. And he's a cabaret/lounge singer who has produced a very traditional MOR album. |
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Post by punter on Sept 22, 2006 0:08:42 GMT 10
i agree, who chooses the nominees? it's a bit of a joke when you think about some of the music that has been released by australian artists this year. i mean mark sholtez is just so goddamn boooooooring who cares who plays on the cd, his whole concept is lame. the rest of the list is ok but for my money there's much better out there. i've heard that many of the people who vote have conflicts of interest and often make choices dictated by those interests. am i going to get my arse sued now???
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Post by freddy on Sept 22, 2006 0:26:33 GMT 10
Yes, they can, as long as they are competent themselves. It's your problem if you don't know this. I lived and worked in New York for nearly a year and made friends with a number of musicians in the same league as the two you mention, who often talked about unremarkable sessions they'd been hired to do. They took the gig and did a professionable job. great - thanks for the info and apologies for my ignorance. i am but a poor shepherd boy etc... now, can you tell me who else plays on James Muller's Aria nominated release 'Kaboom'? - Yes, yes, I know there not from here but the point about that cd is, that it resulted from Muller winning the Freedman Jazz Award and it was part of his submission as to what he was going to do with the prize money. It was part of a plan, an objective he had to fulfill himself as a musician. Muller has made a great contribution to the music here. Sholtez's "project", by contrast, has all the attributes of shallow opportunism. Do you really think the two are comparable in terms of what motivated the band leaders? The real problem could lie with the judges, whoever they may be, if amongst them were a few who thought that every American musician is always better than any from here, therefore every recording with Americans on it has to be better than the local product, and voted accordingly. I've met a few people like that here, haven't you? I think your sheep are calling. . . |
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Post by freddy on Sept 22, 2006 0:39:54 GMT 10
i agree, who chooses the nominees? it's a bit of a joke when you think about some of the music that has been released by australian artists this year. i mean mark sholtez is just so goddamn boooooooring who cares who plays on the cd, his whole concept is lame. the rest of the list is ok but for my money there's much better out there. i've heard that many of the people who vote have conflicts of interest and often make choices dictated by those interests. am i going to get my arse sued now??? It's a three stage process I believe. First the record companies who are affiliated to Aria send their nominations to ARIA, then the voting panel makes its selection (in each case confidentially), then the final list is drawn up from the votes and voted on again. Membership of the voting panel is by invitation and changes but who does the selection and what criteria are used, who knows? A list from which the panelists chosen is, Iam told, available. I suppose you could object after the event. |
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baw
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Post by baw on Sept 22, 2006 7:21:40 GMT 10
great - thanks for the info and apologies for my ignorance. i am but a poor shepherd boy etc... now, can you tell me who else plays on James Muller's Aria nominated release 'Kaboom'? - Yes, yes, I know there not from here but the point about that cd is, that it resulted from Muller winning the Freedman Jazz Award and it was part of his submission as to what he was going to do with the prize money. It was part of a plan, an objective he had to fulfill himself as a musician. Muller has made a great contribution to the music here. Sholtez's "project", by contrast, has all the attributes of shallow opportunism. Do you really think the two are comparable in terms of what motivated the band leaders? The real problem could lie with the judges, whoever they may be, if amongst them were a few who thought that every American musician is always better than any from here, therefore every recording with Americans on it has to be better than the local product, and voted accordingly. I've met a few people like that here, haven't you? I think your sheep are calling. . . To recap - your Aria ineligabilty formula takes into account the nationality (or at least locale) of the 'non leader' players PLUS the motivation of the leader...genius I wasn't the one who 'connected' Muller's and Sholtez' CDs. You did when you invoked the 'Royston Vasey clause' insisting that all players must be local. Sadly you caught a couple of fish in that net. I tried to point that out to you. You dodge, give me another lesson i don't need, mumble something about 'motivation' and start singing 'Advance Australia Fair'. Surely there are more compelling reasons to not support Sholtez' inclusion as an Aria nominee? Do a little more than read the personnel and come up with a few... |
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Post by trumpetguy on Sept 22, 2006 9:31:08 GMT 10
Who cares!
Jazz Brownlows or jazz logies or whatever.
Does anybody honestly believe that winning one has any effect on a musician's career?
Sure you could put a sticker on your CD and maybe generate another 20 cd sales.
Personally, if I was one of the nominated people I would be far more distressed by all of this debate about whether I was even worthy of a nomination than any gains I could hope for by winning.
Congratulations to all nominees, I am sure whoever gets it will be very happy, but really, let's get back talking about music.
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Post by ladylex on Sept 22, 2006 9:43:41 GMT 10
I really think those of you finding any fault with Mark’s album are quite wretched. Its an excellent album. So it doesn’t fit to your especial tiny fascist cateogries of what jazz is ‘meant to be’. Its still jazz dammit. Plenty of jazz harmonies, structures and improvisation there. Many of the tunes were co-written with Peter Walters for chrissakes.
And for the record: Mark had little final say as to who was playing on his album. Tommy and Hayden made the significant decisions in chosing the lineup –and Im sure this being his very first signed album: Mark wouldn’t have said boo to anything. Neither would any of you had you been in his fortunate position.
There’s little love or support from many of you. You are either bitter you don’t get it. Or bitter when someone does. Or just plain bitter.
That’s a lot of lemons. And a great shame. It says quite a bit about our country actually. I thought it was only Brisbane. Guess not.
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Post by ladylex on Sept 22, 2006 9:44:52 GMT 10
Who cares! Jazz Brownlows or jazz logies or whatever. Does anybody honestly believe that winning one has any effect on a musician's career? Sure you could put a sticker on your CD and maybe generate another 20 cd sales. Personally, if I was one of the nominated people I would be far more distressed by all of this debate about whether I was even worthy of a nomination than any gains I could hope for by winning. Congratulations to all nominees, I am sure whoever gets it will be very happy, but really, let's get back talking about music. Top post  |
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Post by Kenny on Sept 22, 2006 9:57:41 GMT 10
I really think those of you finding any fault with Mark’s album are quite wretched. Its an excellent album. So it doesn’t fit to your especial tiny fascist cateogries of what jazz is ‘meant to be’. Its still jazz dammit. Plenty of jazz harmonies, structures and improvisation there. Many of the tunes were co-written with Peter Walters for chrissakes. And for the record: Mark had little final say as to who was playing on his album. Tommy and Hayden made the significant decisions in chosing the lineup –and Im sure this being his very first signed album: Mark wouldn’t have said boo to anything. Neither would any of you had you been in his fortunate position. There’s little love or support from many of you. You are either bitter you don’t get it. Or bitter when someone does. Or just plain bitter. That’s a lot of lemons. And a great shame. It says quite a bit about our country actually. I thought it was only Brisbane. Guess not. Fair enough. But in saying "Mark had little final say as to who was playing on his album", you are giving lie to continued implying that because Christian Mcbride plays on it, that he therefore somehow endorses it. For what little it's worth, I don't think the album was good, great, mediocre or dull - it's simply in a style in which I have zero interest. Oh tosh! Not for the first time you smear anyone who dares not to conform to your rah-rah-rah nationalistic cheer squad mentality. What? You think we should all fall into line with you? Getting Australian jazz/jazzy music/whatever more widely heard around the world would be made even more difficult by us all adopting some sort of "it's all good" mantra. No credibility in that route. |
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